In other words, the Institute of Chartered Accountants in England and Wales profits from fines on its most wayward members whose work is likely to have brought the profession into disrepute. In 2022 its entire net income came from this source. And each member benefitted by £89 as a result.
I have previously asked the Institute of Chartered Accountants in England and Wales about the ethics of this arrangement and they have never given me an adequate reply.
So, I ask again, why should chartered accountants benefit from the costs that their own failings impose upon society? I wish I could answer that. I suspect that no one can reasonably do so.
Good and honest accountants benefit by £89 from the fines paid by bad and dishonest accountants.
God and honest citizens benefit from the confiscation of assets from criminals.
and?
Did the LHTD give back his £89? Enquiring minds wish to know!
Is God a dishonest citizen? We need to know.
In what way did the members benefit? Did the Institute reduce subscriptions or pay out a dividend ?
In case you wonder, the answer is no
@ Chromatiste
God is not a citizen: He is not limited to any one country or community.
The Institute of Chartered Accountants in England and Wales recently announced a beefing up of Continuing Professional Development requirements. I think it now requires attending approved seminars and courses rather than just filling in a form saying you read your own self-produced shyte reports and are fully up to speed.
This is just Spud laying the groundwork for a ‘principled’ decision to quit the organisation.
This is just Spud laying the groundwork for a ‘principled’ decision to quit the organisation.
I suspect AndrewC has hit the nail on the head.
God is an Englishman, so he’s clearly British.
I hate to surprise you, but he is wrong.
As has been pointed out to him before, by ICAEW themselves in a tweet to him, there are two ways in which the FRC can nobble bad accountants. One is the Audit Enforcement Procedure and the other is the Accountancy Scheme. The AEP is used when going after auditors, because the FRC only has to show that the auditor didn’t follow auditing standards in full (no need to show malice) to get them. The AS is used when going after non-auditors (such as company directors).
Fines from the AEP go straight to the Treasury. The FRC tends to recoup costs too, which go to them.
It’s the AS which ICAEW (or the relevant professional body) gets the fines for. And they only get the fines because they pay for the cost of the investigation against their member while the investigation is running.
This most recent case against KPMG was conducted under the AEP.
Now, as I said, this has been pointed out to him before. So he can’t claim ignorance, this is pure unadulterated fuckspuddery.
@Diogenes
I’m curious. If wayward members were fined and it didn’t reduce good members subscriptions, who did it benefit?
AndyF probably the consultants they bring in to draft the Institute’s Modern Slavery Statement, Net Zero road map and suchlike nonsense
Behold the logic of collectivist thought! “Chartered accountants benefit from the costs that their own failings impose upon society”.
How did this bonehead ever get a Charter in the first place?
I’m not sure what the possible ethical problem is. The obvious one is that by benefiting from fines might encourage false accusations and unjust fines, but that does not seem to be supported by “why should chartered accountants benefit from the costs that their own failings impose upon society?”.
But that question seems confused. Nobody benefits from their own failings. The ones who benefit are different to those found to have failings. However, some extreme left wing views sometimes seem to assume that membership of a group means that all members are identical clones. Perhaps that is the case here where the Institute can raise money which benefits all members by fining some members. A bit like that old joke about a group who earn a living by taking in each others washing.
Isn’t someone who used their twin brother or another ringer to sit their exams in accountancy rather on shaky ground making any comments in this area?
How did this bonehead ever get a Charter in the first place?
There are multiple theories about that…
And most of all… Did he cop a fine, and if he didn’t…. Why the hell not?
That whole, in Spud’s own words…, “… members whose work is likely to have brought the profession into disrepute.”
Because if he isn’t a shining example of exactly just that, I don’t know what is.
And that’s on the Equation: Accountants = Lawyers = Politicians = [insert something impolite to taste here] to begin with. (imnsho)
I once raised an official complaint about his blog, giving examples of where he had slagged off the ICAEW. The complaint was rejected because it didn’t cite any clients who had been badly treated
All the above said, the odious guilds and liveries are a feudal curse on many professions and should be destroyed.
And, I say this as an individually chartered member of a chartered institute (whose charter I voted against).
Benefits? It makes no differences to the annual member fees.