Interest in electric cars slumps by two thirds as high prices wipe out savings
Prices change behaviour? Amazin’, that’s enough to start a new science right there.
Interest in electric cars slumps by two thirds as high prices wipe out savings
Prices change behaviour? Amazin’, that’s enough to start a new science right there.
The prices haven’t changed. I think it’s really that there just isn’t that much demand. It’s an elite thing, like owning a Macbook or buying organic food. If people really wanted EVs there would be stories about queues or people paying over list price for them.
Looks like Toyota called it about right.
Monthly average electricity prices based on day-ahead baseload contracts in Great Britain from January 2015 to November 2022
(in British pounds per megawatt-hour)
November 2019: £39.94
November 2022: £133.06
Price of petrol in Nov 2019: 127.6p/l
Price of petrol in Nov 2022: 164.7p/l
Leccy is 333% more expensive than it used to be, while petrol is ‘only’ 129% its previous price. Lower pence-per-mile (not including the large upfront costs) was one of the main selling points of EVs.
Was.
I can see how for some people an EV is the perfect choice.
For example, I have an acquaintance whose Tesla is a company car he didn’t pay for, his home charger was installed free of charge, his daily travel is entirely predictable and well within the range of the thing, he gets another free charge in his reserved space at the office, and there are considerable tax benefits relative to a car with an IC engine.
I know other people whose EVs are their way of rubbing the noses of the Plebs in shit while proclaiming how environmentally sensitive (and hence holy) they are.
I know a lot of fuckwits!
I would still love to know why my domestic electricity, which I am told is from 100% renewable sources, has increased in price, when I am assured that renewables only get cheaper over time.
Lots of used electric cars are coming onto the market but second hand electric cars are too expensive for most people. Inventories are building up and prices are plummeting to stimulate demand. Company cars tend to be leased and the “cost” of the lease is heavily determined by what the residual value of the car will be after the 2, 3 or 4 year term. Plummeting second hand value means high depreciation so leasing companies put the new car lease prices up. This pushes them out of the price “bands” for company car drivers so new cars sales dry up.
@AndyF – Well at least the leasing companies are behaving rationally.
I can see how for some people an EV is the perfect choice
Good points:
EVs are fun, easy and pleasant to drive.
No engine noise, simple go-kart automatic controls, instant acceleration whenever you need it, lots of nice quality of life toys as standard. Your wife will love it.
Bad points:
Range is still a serious drawback, you won’t be able to drive from London to Edinburgh on a single charge. You need to plan your journeys.
Charging is slow, expensive, and the public infrastructure is shite.
They’re a lot more expensive than a similarly specced diesel.
Albanians might nick your charging cable.
They’ve become wank chariots for Guardian readers and weird Elon Musk fanboys.
Do HMRC class recharging your Tesla at the office as a Benefit in Kind?
@Steve: you won’t be able to drive from London to Edinburgh on a single charge
It’s around an 8 hour drive. It doesn’t matter what the car is fuelled with, most drivers aren’t going to make it in one go without stopping to empty their bladder and fill their stomach.
Stopping for a piss and to buy a cardboard sarnie takes 10 minutes tops. How long does it take to recharge your milk float?
Dio – no, they don’t. One of the reasons EVs were popular as a company car option is the non-rapey BiK rates, as opposed to getting a petrol company car where BiK is so prohibitive I don’t know why anybody bothers.
They’ll be putting up BiK and road tax on EV’s soon tho.
Arthur – London – Edinburgh trip in a Vauxhall Calibra (with a cool aftermarket spoiler kit):
Leave London
Get on the M6
Nip into Forton services for a piss, some petrol, and a steak bake = about 45 minutes. But you can also use a bunch of other service stations if you want to.
Get back on the M6
Welcome to Edinburgh (watch out for the jugglers)
The same journey in an EV:
Calculate, in advance, where you are going to need to stop for recharging.
And your backup options if your preferred stop is too busy or the chargers don’t work.
Fully recharge your car the night before.
Leave London.
Get about 200 miles up the road in a decent newish model (less, if it’s very cold or you bought one 5 years ago) before you have to do your first stop.
Wait in the queue for the working charging station that fits your model of car.
Charge for at least a couple of hours, maybe more.
Back on the road.
Do the same thing again as you get closer to Edinburgh, so maybe another 2 hours lost (you do NOT want to be driving a car whose battery is about to die).
Welcome to Edinburgh, where you will be raped by jugglers for owning a Tesla.
My diesel car is brilliant when I do a long journey on a motorway, as it appears to use a negative amount of fuel for the first 50-60 miles (the range indicator goes from c. 480 to c. 500 miles over that distance – full tank to start with). It’s all to do with the mpg, of course, which is much lower to start with if I’ve previously done short journeys. It always amuses me. I’m sure that EVs don’t have that inbuilt ‘joke’.
@Steve: ‘They’ve become wank chariots for Guardian readers and weird Elon Musk fanboys’. I don’t think my views are as positive as yours!
Market saturation.
It was/is a small market: those who can afford EVs, for whom they are practical; those getting subsidies or company provided EV; people with garages or driveways.
EVs are most practical for towns, city et environs travel, but towns and cities have on-street parking for many, making home charging impractical.
Steve,
Carrying a load of kids, dog, luggage will take a chunk out of your range, too.
Also, you just can’t get a nice big family car, the sort of thing for going to the Dordogne in that rides like a sofa. They’re all about the size of a Golf.
@BoM4
Outside of Paris and the aires on the autoroutes, are there any EV charging points in France? I’ve never clocked one.
“ Albanians might nick your charging cable.”
Tim Newman is heavily involved in battery tech and he reckons thrives will soon be nicking cars and ripping out the batteries as that’s where the real value is.
Chris, there are EV points outside most Leclerc hypermarkets. I only know because they are the parking spaces that nobody ever seems to use and are, therefore, easily recognised
For urban driving, you’re going to get ~30mpg if you’re lucky in a modern ICE car.
At current petrol prices, that’s give or take 20p/mile.
Electric at ~0.3kWh per mile (give or take) and assuming you fixed your tariff at the right point, you might be getting 8-9p/mile electric.
Except the petrol cost has 9p of duty and 1.5p higher VAT which the leccy doesn’t bear.
=> The electric savings are ENTIRELY a result of the difference tax regime. That’s not going to last long.
I agree
It’s all about total cost of ownership
Running costs are a small part of that calculation
Unless you are buying an old car the biggest cost of ownership is depreciation (and financing the purchase) and generally more expensive cars depreciate more
EVs are significantly more expensive than ICE equivalents and seem to be pretty unpopular used car options
Add on insurance costs and servicing which are broadly similar, although EVs are supposed to be cheaper over time, as far as I can see the differentiator is purchase price and depreciation
Then add on infrastructure costs which seem to be met by other people at the moment, which cannot last long and the case gets still worse
Unless the government puts another thumb on the scales and changes the duty rates in favour of EV (they are already fiddling with duty on gas Vs electricity to try and prop up the ridiculously poor economics of ground source heating) for most use cases ICE is, and will be for the medium term, superior if you are spending your own money
Now, if your use case involves subsidised charging at work, short range urban commutes and evading ULEZ charges EVs may be an option. Quite frankly in these cases public transport is probably better, or an Uber, or a moped
Like most greenwash activities EVs simply do not stack up in the real world
Mostly because the replacement battery costs are pretty huge and it becomes a big question mark over used car prices / value as to how much (if any) mileage is left in the batteries before they have to be replaced.
Plus recycling costs for getting rid of the old batteries.
How does that compare to the old ICE problem of “The back end going”?
You would have thought great minds would have addressed the remaining battery life issue
Would those be the same “Great Minds” that came up with NetZero? Because if it is then you’ve no chance at a reasonable and practical solution.
Just more “Hope ‘n Change” bullshit.