Scrap this unjust verdict, scrap this law: no woman should go to prison for having an abortion
Stella Creasy
Time and crime, Love, time and crime.
The average punishment for a violent crime is about 18 months in prison. Yesterday, a 44-year-old woman was sentenced, under a law dating back to 1861, to 28 months for procuring an abortion beyond 24 weeks.
Violence includes ABH and GBH. The average sentence for murder, upon conviction, is life in prison.
Abortion is a healthcare matter.
Jesus she’s a vile cow, isn’t she? She really is arguing for abortion up until term.
I did enjoy the dishonesty of this: “The average punishment for a violent crime is about 18 months in prison. Yesterday, a 44-year-old woman was sentenced, under a law dating back to 1861, to 28 months”
A sentence of 28 months means that she’ll probably be out after 14 months, so the murder will have had her locked up for less time than the average thug.
I prefer not to have an opinion about the rights or wrongs of abortion at any point in a pregnancy. On the basis that 1) I’m very unlikely to get pregnant. 2) I’m not in the position some pregnant women find themselves in. It’s very easy to absolute & high minded about things when it ain’t happened to you.
Nevertheless. There is a law. This women has broken it. There has to be retribution & punishment. There has to be a deterrent. It’s not about her, it’s about the next woman & the next unborn child. If there’s no deterrent, what’s the point in having the law?
We could of course go back to the good old classical era where you just dumped the unwanted kid on the rubbish heap. Though I understand the abos were kinder. They’d just bash his/her head in.
Thus no need for the taxpayer to pay for all those expensive drugs.
’She really is arguing for abortion up until term.’
Creasy herself is ‘to term’, technically, isn’t she?
Lions. No, make that lionesses.
Indeed, Julia, there is a lot to be said for retrospective contraception.
On the subject of deterrence I await the day when some brave gynaecologist refuses to perform an abortion on the grounds that the mother is perfectly healthy and her claims of mental distress are bogus. In the meantime we have abortion on demand. Safe, legal and rare, my elbow.
“rare”
I don’t recall an announcement or celebratory parade but the I believe number in the UK since legalisation topped 10,000,000 some time last year (or was it in 2021, who’s counting?).
“This, they argued, is why allowing women to access abortion medication by post during the pandemic was a disaster. But it wasn’t.” – Stella Creasy
Well, it was for the baby.
“It wouldn’t happen in Northern Ireland”
So what happens if you procure an abortion after the legal limit in Northern Ireland? What happens if you commit a criminal act? A fine? That just gets written into the price of an abortion.
As I said yesterday she is in favour of decriminalising (unborn) child murder, so are her labour colleagues, so is Caroline Noakes and her conservative colleagues, so is the bbc, so (almost certainly) is the COE while the Catholics are at best passive at worst supportive these days. The Lib Dem dominated lords are hardly going to intervene for once.
It’s going to happen quickly and in doing so will prove that it is perfectly possible for this useless parliament to pass legislation, just not the kind the electorate actually wants.
This is conflating two issues:
1. Is this murder or an abortion, should abortion be allowed or not, and under what terms? Discuss.
2. If you break the law, and are caught and convicted, should you be exempt from punishment because you are a woman? And if the law has no penalty, why have law? Lynch mobs and vigilate ‘justice’ beckons.
Regardless of your opinion on the first, the fact remains that she broke the law as it is, and was caught and convicted.
So do we embed sexist discrimination in law and set women (whatever they are…the definition keeps changing…) outside of all punishement? Think of the children?
What about a male murderer whose salary supports his family? Think of the children!
What about a Yorkshire Ripper claiming to be a transwoman? Cannot jail them because of the killings?
Abortion is such a contentious subject it makes good fodder for bad legislation: women are to be exempt from any imprisonment regardless of the offence???
Long marches destroying the institutions….
Is this murder or an abortion, should abortion be allowed or not, and under what terms?
(1) Abortion is murder.
(2) Murder should not be allowed.
(3) See (2) above.
https://www.standard.co.uk/hp/front/lying-predator-jailed-for-trying-to-poison-pregnant-lover-s-baby-6788944.html
Note the disparate sentences dished out, probably as a result of the patriarchy
@Dennis,
While I agree, you missed my point.
“Regardless of your opinion on the first,”
Getting sidetracked on (1) obfuscates the point that the law was broken, should the perp be punished as per the law or be given a free pass?
It’s only a matter of time before Myra Hindley is sainted as a victim & martyr.
Tim –
(1) renders (2) meaningless.
(2) is only meaningful if (1) is not present.
The Offences Against the Persons act of 1861 still exists. Should that law be ripped up or ignored because it is out of date?
@philip
I think you will be sorely disappointed, as the law does not give a doctor a veto over abortion, nor say that a majority of those consulted must agree, merely that two must agree. If any doctor disagrees, they will simply not be asked in future, while the case they were asked about will be referred to a different doctor.
@Andrew C – “topped 10,000,000 some time last year”
The people who keep saying that we must reject immigration because the country is full should be absolutely delighted at this.
@Anon
No inconsistency. Even for those who consider a foetus to be a person, this was a serious crime. The offender poisoned a woman (and the unborn foetus, if you consider them a separate person), which is serious, but further, the offender was a doctor so for a doctor to use their skills that way is especially bad.
Does English law still make its ancient distinction between infanticide and murder?
@Charles,
@Andrew C – “topped 10,000,000 some time last year”
The people who keep saying that we must reject immigration because the country is full should be absolutely delighted at this.
(Aside from the moral aspect of abortion…)
Meanwhile, those of us who can see the coming population collapse have been saying “um, abortion bad, mm’kay?”
Current birth rate per woman in UK is below replacement (~1.7 iirc).
That means the population of the UK will be reducing in the future and the demographics skew towards oldies, who will need pensions and lots of healthcare. This will have to be paid for by an ever dwindling number of taxpayers, who will be struggling under an insane tax burden so will have fewer children themselves. Down the spiral we go.
Or we just let a few oldies die… (not my preferred option)
Over 70% of countries are facing this at the moment. And those that aren’t are trending towards it.
Maybe allowing the wholesale slaughter of unborn children who then can’t enter the workforce to support the previous generations might be a bad thing?
I find myself conflicted.
1. Abortion is Murder.
2. Look at the advocates. Thank God for Darwin and Evolution. More please.
There are some genes that positvely do not need to be propogated further.
I have an idea.
Maybe people should just:
1) Get married
2) Put babies in their wives
I can see no flaws in this plan of concupiscent conception. It’s not that hard guys.*
*TWSH
TWSH Steve??
Tactical Weapon System Highway? Or Titanium Wire Space Holder? Or maybe it’s The Women’s Safe House; it’s really nice of her to provide that for it.
@Boganboy
That’s What She H’said
16 years…at least half of that would have been for the baby…
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-35551165