And Sunak knew enough about the Treasury by then to know the beast he was taking on. The cold-hearted creator of mayhem in the UK economy in the 1930s was still in place, ready to roll out its indifference to human suffering yet again. And Sunak let it do that. And we have all paid a price in some way.
For the British economy the 1930s were pretty good actually.
The late 1920s were shit, yes, because of Churchill’s return to the pre-war gold standard. But come the 1929 disaster, then 1931 and the Creditanstalt collapse (when things got really bad in Europe) Britain did pretty well actually. Yes, they cut government spending, reduced the deficit (might have gone into surplus, can’t recall) but they also came off gold, reducing the FX rate by 25%. The combination of those two was markedly expansionary – monetary policy was very much more expansionary then fiscal was contractionary. This is where that whole idea of expansionary fiscal contraction came from in 2008 and following. It had actually worked the last time. Britain was growing again and by 1934 was larger than ever by GDP.
The mayhem was over in hte US, where the Depression really took hold. As Freidman pointed out, because of bad monetary policy. And Roosevelt’s pissing about with supply reductions, constraints, vast parts of the New Deal and so on made it worse.
But in lefty folk economics Britain was as bad in the 30s as the US. It simply wasn’t. The reason they want to paint it that way – or remember it that way perhaps – was because they want to be able to point to how awful were the results of British policy at that time, how good Roosevelt’s interventions. When the actually lesson of the time is the other way around.
A major driver of Britian’s recovery was in fact private sector housebuilding along those newly developed A roads – the ribbon developments which the Town and Country Planning Act 1947 prohibited.
Eastasia has always been saved by interventionist government, d’ye see?
It was of course the “black spots” being blacker : Wales, Scotland, Tyneside – because they were dependent on heavy industry, when the balance shifted south to the new industries of electrics and pharma – that lives in the folk memory. See the thread below about Wales.
It was the war wot gave these regions a temporary respite. When we no longer needed the steel for tanks and destroyers or the railways to ship it about, their decline started again ( with or without nationalisation).
But in lefty folk economics Britain was as bad in the 30s as the US. It simply wasn’t. The reason they want to paint it that way – or remember it that way perhaps – was because they want to be able to point to how awful were the results of British policy at that time, how good Roosevelt’s interventions. When the actually lesson of the time is the other way around.
How much of it is simple ignorance, stupidity, or malice? Most Progressives are uninformed and uninterested in the world, especially on subjects they claim to be experts on (the EU, climate change, poverty, immigration).
In place of knowledge they have foolish opinions, borrowed from other fuckwits on American Twitter, then copypastaed to Britain. This is why teevee is desperately trying to convince you we live in a country full of grinning negroes. It’s why English schools have “proms”.
On a theological note, I’m not convinced these people (the progressives, not the negroes) have souls.
More research lions are needed.
My father pointed out to me that the US had The Great Depression while we merely had The Slump. There’s a lot to be said for absorbing this sort of stuff in boyhood.
He also pointed out that though The Slump was miserable for the people who lost their jobs and didn’t find new ones, people who stayed in work largely prospered.
Robert Graves: The Long Weekend.
Recommended
Reaches the same conclusions as you, Tim.
Steve is spot on (When is he not – even if he’s over in a Moscow dacha?)
Murphy’s historical knowledge is very much selective…
Similar story here in Australia. There was a temporary pretty severe downturn and then a recovery.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Depression_in_Australia
There was also some deflation, which meant that if you kept your job your standard of living rose even without a pay rise.
China started to export deflation to us in the 1990s. (all that cheap tat.) The West’s reaction was to crush interest rates to maintain inflation at 2%, instead of just banking the windfall. Baffled me at the time, looks downright mad now.
– This is why teevee is desperately trying to convince you we live in a country full of grinning negroes.
That’s not foolish opinion, Steve, that’s continuing groundwork propaganda. I now (all of a mysterious sudden) live in a town full of negroes, southwest asians and various “travel” related ethnics. All men. And they’re not smiling. Despite being given bus passes and now, amazingly, bicycles.
The other day I visited a park type nature reserve in the Derbyshire countryside. It was so noteworthy how many ethnics there were that I did a count of those coming through the gate while I was there – literally half were dark skinned. Then I remembered how close I was by car to Derby. So far they’ve stayed in their township stans, but now they’re emboldened and coming out. We’re going to see the high success levels of the invasions.
“ How much of it is simple ignorance, stupidity, or malice? Most Progressives are uninformed and uninterested in the world, especially on subjects they claim to be experts on (the EU, climate change, poverty, immigration).”
A lot of years ago Mrs BiND invited one of her arty friends for dinner, it was about the time of the Lisbon Treaty rows.. After about 30mins of her banging on about how crap American TV was, how crap American politics was etc compared to how good European was I’d had enough and despite knowing I’d get a good kicking under the table I couldn’t keep quiet. I asked her how much French, German or Italien TV she watched – none. How many French, German or Italien newspapers she read -none. Then how did she reach her conclusions? Silence, followed by Mrs BiND quickly starting a new topic.
Since then I’ve done even more travelling and working in other countries with locals and I’m even more convinced than Steve is right, although pre Brexit I’d say the balance was probably ignorance, since Brexit I’d go for ignorant malice.
I am sure I commented on the 1925 Gold Standard retrurn before. Churchill tried to go against the Treasury line and failed.Ironically the Labour Party were gung ho for being fixed to the Gold Standard at the 1914 rate and it to be enacted asap.
So far as Europe and Uk was concerned 1929 was not the problem but 1931 with the collapse of Credit Anstalt. For the UK the problem was the usual one of the City, backed by BofE, lending long whilst being propped up by short term money coming in. Once the Banks became wobbly the City was desparately trying to shore things up.
The vital step taken was the change made by BofE to “cheap money” in 1932 along with the previous step to come off gold in 1931 which pertained throughout the period combined with the world wide lowering of commodity prices. The problem with the areas of traditional industries in UK was long term and dating from before 1914 and which continued until almost the present time. It might be that the focus on these was based on Labour Party hegemony in those areas and this has coloured thinging about the 1920’s / 1930’s ever since.
VP – thank you
PJF – That’s disturbing. You’re made to feel like a stranger in your own land.
Another Thing We Don’t Talk About is the huge amount of ongoing White English Flight to Scotland. Not even the SNP is interested in this, because our political system is not there to discuss important and controversial issues, it’s there to manage us, the dumb herd of tax cows.
It’s funny how much the British-identified government claims to love “sustainability”, innit.
BiND – a lot of people on the conservative / libertarian bit of the political spectrum still think it’s the 90’s, when it appeared as if there was a political debate based on facts and rational common goals, and that we’re merely disagreeing over the best way to benefit our country.
But these people want to abolish the country and castrate your children. There’s no debate to be had there.
“White English Flight to Scotland” Bit like the German invasion in the Dark Ages: some Britons fled from them, including to Armorica which is how it came to be renamed Brittany. I dare say there’s white English flight to Cornwall too. Wales, even? The great wheel turns …
Mr Worstall seems unconcerned that unemployment persisted at extraordinarily high levels through the 30s as in the 20s. He argues, or at least implies that it varied across the country so it canot have been all bad; and further that the 30s were an era of recovery and expansion.
As Mark Blyth pointed out in “Austerity”, it was no thanks to the Treasury that the UK escaped wome of the worst aspects of the US’s continuing Depression. He points out that leaving the gold standard did nothing for the debt, and like all serious commentators notes that unemployment remained at crisis level until re-armament, despite Mr Worstall’s claims for ribbon development.
Indeed “ribbon development” seems to sum up Mr Worstall’s rambling and ill-focused comments