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So, so, weird here. The teacher is right

The Telegraph has heard a recording of the heated exchange taken by one of the pupils, in which the teacher starts by saying “how dare you – you’ve just really upset someone” by “questioning their identity”.

The pupil responded: “If they want to identify as a cat or something then they are genuinely unwell – crazy.”

The teacher then asks the girls “where did you get this idea from that there are only two genders”, adding: “It is not an opinion.”

The teacher said that “gender is not linked to the parts that you were born with, gender is about how you identify, which is what I said right from the very beginning of the lesson.”

She added that “there is actually three biological sexes because you can be born with male and female body parts or hormones” and “there are lots of genders – there is transgender, there is a gender who are people who don’t believe that they have a gender at all”.

The girls said they “don’t agree with that” and that you “can’t have” a gender because “if you have a vagina you’re a girl and if you have a penis you’re a boy – that’s it”.

The teacher interjected in a raised voice: “What do you mean you can’t have it? It’s not a law … Cisgender is not necessarily the way to be – you are talking about the fact that cisgender is the norm, that you identify with the sexual organ you were born with, that’s basically what you’re saying, which is really despicable.”

If we start from the point which is true – gender is presentation, feeling even, sex is biology. OK, so there are however many genders anyone wants and you can, by self-declaration, be any gender.

Sex is the biological immutable. So the teacher is right. But onloy in what she says, sadly she’s almost certainly wrong in what she believes. Because it’s fairly clear that she’s using gender to mean sex here.

Where this distinction matters is that some parts of life are indeed run by gender. “Mornin’ Miss” being an example. But other parts of life ncessarily run on sex – who gets the prostate felt, who gets the cervix swabbed, say. And there are those inter- bits where folk are still arguing. Are changing rooms to be judged by gender or sex (sex says me)?

Shrug.

35 thoughts on “So, so, weird here. The teacher is right”

  1. The teacher is a wrong ‘un.
    Sadly, there seem to be many like her within the teaching profession. There will be many cowards who don’t want to rock the boat, but there will be a goodly number who believe this nonsense and happily enforce it in the classroom.

  2. I disagree, Tim.

    Their teacher told them they were being reported to a senior leader and were no longer welcome at the school, part of the Aquinas Trust, a Church of England network of 11 schools, if they continued to express the view that only boys and girls exist.

    […]

    The teacher interjected in a raised voice: “What do you mean you can’t have it? It’s not a law … Cisgender is not necessarily the way to be – you are talking about the fact that cisgender is the norm, that you identify with the sexual organ you were born with, that’s basically what you’re saying, which is really despicable.”
    The teacher suggested they were homophobic and confused, which the girls denied. When the pupils said their mothers would be on their side, the teacher responded: “Well that’s very sad as well then.”
    The teacher said that “if you don’t like it you need to go to a different school”, adding: “I’m reporting you to [senior staff], you need to have a proper educational conversation about equality, diversity and inclusion because I’m not having that expressed in my lesson.”

    Funny how being a father makes you more right wing, because personally I would make sure this “teacher” is never allowed unsupervised contact with children ever again, and every one of her associates would be under police investigation.

  3. This sort of thing is the Slippery Slope writ large.

    One can self -identify as one wishes : that is Free Will and Free Speech. It does not mean that other peiole HAVE to respect that self-identification, especially if it is blatantly untrue. Then the identifier is imposing their beliefs/feelings whatever on the rest of society. That sort of thing is best left to religions.

    eg Self identigy as gay in Iran and see how far that gets you.

    The child is perfectly within her rights. She does not have to accept any sort of self-identification that is not actual reality.

    The Teacher is little better than Hitler. 🙂

  4. I’m not sure which I’m more amazed at, that the children argue back at the teacher, which would be unthinkable in my day, or that the teacher is so clearly unfit to be allowed anywhere near any position of influence over children and allowed to push such bollocks, which would be unthinkable in my day.

    I had to follow the link to try and see what subject teacher she was. WTH is “life education”? This sounds a bit like an out-of-depth art teacher attempting to teach sex education.

  5. “ If we start from the point which is true – gender is presentation…”.

    Let’s stop encouraging and humouring the loonies.

    Gender is a term used in language for nouns – masculine, feminine, neuter. It has nothing to do with presentation and nouns cannot have as many genders as you or they like. Or perhaps the French word for vagina self-identifies as masculine which is why it is Le vagin and not La vagin.

    Gender is not a term that has any meaning for animals – even Humans. It is an entirely fictitious concept lifted and mis-used from grammar and conflated with sex to propagate some psycho-babble about male and female rôles and how they are determined, in fact taught, by society not biology – and are about people’s feelings and ‘their’ lived-experience.

    But these rôles are the product of evolution which created complex organisms which could only reproduce sexually with two sexes and required specialisation and division of labour for the most efficient propagation of the species. It is therefore the result of the different hormones which determines function, behaviour and rôles. That society reinforces these is certainly true, but only what nature has provided can be nurtured.

    The notion of ‘gender’ and multiples thereof is a cover for mental aberration, and an activist gravy train. Some people have multiple personality disorder – do we declare them normal? Can we each decide our personality, change them ad lib, maybe have as many personalities as we want or remain undecided? If I decide I have two personalities can I get two passports, two birth certificates? If one of my personalities commits murder will my other personality not go to gaol?

    We have left the age of reason and entered the age of absurd.

  6. “If we start from the point which is true – gender is presentation, feeling even, sex is biology.”

    If. That’s only become an intellectual meme in the last century or so, and has only been even vaguely mainstream for about five years. Sex is biology, gender is grammar. We have no word for “presentation”, which is why the perverts have had to steal “gender” for their peccadilloes.

    There are three genders: masculine, feminine, and neuter. But now, for some reason, we’re supposed to believe that some rando kid has invented a new one, “cat”.

    Bollocks. It’s all bollocks. Or, conversely, the lack of them.

    Which, I hasten to add, is fine. I talk bollocks all the time. It takes all sorts, and adds to the gaiety of nations. So to speak. And if you want to pretend you’re a lady, a feline, a unicorn who farts rainbows, or God knows what in the privacy of your own home and among like-minded friends, knock yourself out. None of my business. Just don’t try to make it so.

  7. Be careful here. No one did identify as a cat. It was a hypothetical raised by one of the girls. “If you identify as a cat then….”

  8. I thought the girls did brilliantly! I hope my own Grandchildren can be as strong…

    The teacher should be sacked immediately – perhaps the parents can learn from the Ropers and hold protests outside the school until xe is forced into hiding…?

  9. I’m not sure which I’m more amazed at, that the children argue back at the teacher, which would be unthinkable in my day

    Thankfully, the only nonsense peddled by the teachers in my day was that socialism was a good idea. I’m glad these girls have the balls to stand up against this crap.

  10. The Meissen Bison

    JohnB – absolutely right. I’d only add that the gender lunacy is a luxury in which users of gendered languages generally don’t indulge and where they do they create cumbersome nonsense that is ignored by everyone else.

    asiaseen: “Gender is grammar = opinion”. Sorry, not convinced.

  11. Teach is wrong. Cisgender is the norm. Even more so than heterosexuality.

    Depending on how you wrangle the numbers, somewhere between 95-98% of people are heterosexual. Statistically significant enough to be called Normal.

    When it comes to gender, you’re talking 99.90-99.99% of people being Cisgender.
    And you can wrangle language and vocabulary all you want, if that doesn’t rate as Normal and a Big Fat Hint this is the way Mother Gaia intended us to be, I don’t know what is.

    A teacher stating this isn’t so should get his/her accreditations revoked. Post-haste.
    Possibly the institution that hired his/her as well. Just to be safe.

  12. “there is actually three biological sexes because you can be born with male and female body parts or hormones

    That level of malign stupidity ought to be a sacking offence.

    Plus, what Sam Duncan said. “If we start from the point which is true – gender is presentation” – nope, that bullshit. Starting by taking the delusions of the mentally ill as true is no way to start. It’s why the miserable sharts of the British media keep calling blokes ‘she’ and even referring to ‘her penis’.

    As BiS notes on another thread, the correct answer to all of this is ‘fuck off’. However, I fear Britain no longer has the levels of ‘fuck off’ required.

  13. Fairly obviously, I identify as a cat. It’s sod all to do with sex or gender, it’s because I like the lifestyle – lounging around 16 hours a day, getting fed on demand, doing what I like when I like, … 🙂

  14. I can’t understand what you’re wibbling about, Tim. Who gives a fuck if she’s inadvertently, tangentially correct about some technical aspect of this confounded issue? She’s using the full force of the state to threaten a pupil’s education and future to make them comply with her demented worldview. She should be sacked and put on a blacklist.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12189041/Twelve-year-olds-taught-anal-sex-school-nine-year-olds-told-masturbate.html

    There is no bigger threat to this country than that posed by this profession. They should all be sacked over the summer recess and required to apply for their jobs back – which will require a vetting process monitored by parents.

  15. Gender critical views, i.e. that your sex and gender are both immutable have been declared a protected belief in England. By telling the girl that her gender critical beliefs are despicable and akin to homophobia, the teacher is surely guilty of a hate crime. If I was a parent of the girl, I’d definitely be reporting the incident to plod and seeing how they justified not investigating it.

  16. “Starting by taking the delusions of the mentally ill as true is no way to start.”

    That’s just Tim’s MO. “For the sake of argument, let’s assume tax avoidance / climate change / Uncle Tom / etc” …..

  17. Cisgender is the norm.

    Technically correct, but they’re still winning because you’re using their language. Outside of (maybe) academia, nobody described anybody as cisgender (even my spell checker is a bigot). We don’t go around describing regular people as non-anorexic. Let’s not define ourselves according to the requirements of blokes in dresses and their evil Marxist allies.

  18. Harry Haddock's Ghost

    The teacher was categorically wrong. She stated that there were three sexes. Not genders, sexes. She claimed in the recording that there were male, female and intersex.

    This is factually wrong. There are two sexes: intersex people are makes or females who display some characteristics of the other sex. Chromosomes determine that they are either male, or female.

    Given that was the foundation of her argument, she was therefore wrong.

  19. “. . . there is a gender who are people who don’t believe that they have a gender at all”.

    So gender is identity, and some identify as not having a gender. But they only believe they don’t have a gender, because they really do have gender – which is that of not having a gender.

    The agenda is mental.

  20. She should be sacked and put on a blacklist.
    No. She should be tarred & feathered & rode out of town on a rail.
    That’s called disagreeing with extreme prejudice. And more of it needed pour encourager les autres

  21. “you identify with the sexual organ you were born with, that’s basically what you’re saying, which is really despicable.”

    But I identify the teacher with the sexual organ she was born with. She’s so obviously a cunt.

  22. Thank you Sam.

    Steve. Though merely a great uncle, I do share your sentiments.

    And I must admit I do like the way those girls called that idiot on her bullshit. Maybe there’s hope for us yet.

  23. PJF – Yarp.

    Btw I was looking for a Father’s Day card recently and found the local Sainsbury’s is selling Disney branded LGBTQIA+ Pride cards for children.

    We could try to debate that, I suppose, but we both know it’s Lion Time.

  24. @ bloke in spain

    I talked myself back from machineguns and ditches.
    My apologies for my character flaws.

  25. Arthur the cat

    I thought that you were so caled because you ate your dinner straight out of a tin,

    ( We had a cat who did that. We couldn’decide if she had worked it out herself or seen Arthur on the telly ).

  26. “That’s just Tim’s MO. “For the sake of argument, let’s assume tax avoidance / climate change / Uncle Tom / etc” …..”

    Yes, and its a f*cking stupid one. It opens the gate for the mentalists to have won the argument by default. You are no longer arguing whether a man can become a woman, but what to do once they say they have, or whats the best climate change policy, not whether its actually happening at all etc etc.

    Far better to fight the first battle to the death, because if you don’t you’ll never win the second order battles enough to reverse that initial loss that you gave away for free.

  27. She is correct on one point and one alone – that this is not a matter of opinion. Sex is immutable, this is a fact. The children were factually correct and used logic, reasoning and critical thinking to dismantle her ideology. There is hope for the future here.

    As an aside, I saw that she rolled out the old intersex is a third gender trope. Noe. It is nothing of the sort. Intersex is a genetic abnormality – that is, something has gone wrong, it is not evidence of multiple genders.

  28. The teacher is very much wrong. She said “I’m reporting you to [senior staff], you need to have a proper educational conversation about equality, diversity and inclusion because I’m not having that expressed in my lesson.”. This is completely inappropriate. Pupils go to school to learn. It is only to be expected that they will be wrong about some stuff they believe – even after lessons, as otherwise they would all score 100% on every exam. What would you say about a science teacher who had a pupil claiming that salt was an element and responded in the same way by saying that expressing that view should result in the pupil being excluded from class?

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