Hunts have been banned from taking card payments by a major financial services firm in the latest example of de-banking.
SumUp, a card reader provider, has included “hunting clubs/activities” on its list of “restricted businesses” alongside “illegal or legally questionable businesses and products”, escort services and fortune tellers.
A number of hunts have had their machines switched off during fundraising events, potentially losing thousands of pounds, The Telegraph can reveal.
Companies linked to shooting are also targeted as “guns, firearms, airsoft guns, munitions sale and distribution” are on the blacklist.
Card readers are used to take payments at events and the move means the hunts are unable to accept credit or debit cards from their customers.
Couple of questions – is this normal among such firms? So, are all hunts gun clubs, being unbanked?
Secondly, how many customers does such an intermediary need? I would imagine that the software, readers, all that, is a “company in a box” style arrangement.
So, if some few hundred makes a business, why not have a go at it? If it’s a few tens of thousands then that would be more difficult.
Anyone actually know the nuts and bolts here?
Of course, this is also how Wirecard started out (with sex sites) but I know how that scam worked so once we’re up and running we can make a fortune. For a bit.
Given the rules are probably about to be changed, this might not be the ideal time to do this.
This all comes back to the regulators giving “softer” guidance to banks. Rather than saying “You must do X and must not do Y” (which pre-2008 was gamed), they’ve tried “You must be nice and we’ll judge you on that subjectively”. Turns out this wasn’t such a great idea.
I expect we’ll now revert to plan A… which is great news for banks, as we’ve already noted that these can be gamed. But does make the business plan less viable.
The Co-Op Bank has been strong on the ‘ethical’ bit for years (not for the executives though, natch):
https://www.co-operativebank.co.uk/assets/pdf/bank/values-and-ethics/ethical-policy.pdf, so none of this is new.
What is different is that ‘normal people’ have become aware that institutions are happy to cancel ‘normal people guilty of wrongthink’, not just the likes of Viktor Bout or Carlos the Jackal.
You’re probably right that the software, card readers, etc is easy stuff that anyone could do.
I suspect though, that the “back end” connection to the banks will turn out to be a state-controlled cartel – like the banks themselves – and will be impossible to break into unless you tick all the right boxes and are not a wrong-thinker.
Interesting. I suppose people in general are used to the idea of cash, that has no ethical standards.
However now the tendency to replace bits of paper and metal with electronic transfer of data has reached the stage where its controllers can exert significant pressure on your ‘normal people’.
Understandably they wish to retain the rights that cash gave them.
My brother is master of a hunt which is still going. I’ll ask him.
They’re obviously under threat, though. My dad’s old hunt (a farmers’ one, not one of the posh ones) closed down recently because of a combination of wanker sabs and a fair bit of their country being developed.
Re ammo, my mate and I went to our local gun shop and bought 1,000 shotgun cartridges the other day and they’re still taking cards.
My brother reports no issues, though most of their business (subs, ball, kit, hounds etc) is done via cash – which will eventually pose problems of its own.
@Interested
A thousand rounds of ammo? Do you have advance notice that the rest of us haven’t got yet?
@philip
I mean, obviously, yes, but in this case it was two of us, 500 apiece, for a day’s clay shooting. We got through about 400 each.
Do Sharia-compliant banks debank people they consider to be sympathetic to Islamic terrorism?
Or people who support honour-killing of daughters? Or support slavery, modern or otherwise?
What can the regulators tell us about the answer to such questions?
Is there a limit on how many rounds of ammo one can buy ? You know, like paracetamol in Tescos.
The limit will be what your shotgun/firearms licence allows you. You ask for what you need when applying for the licence and when the old bill approve your application that’s what you get. 1000 is very reasonable.
The limit at Tesco is to stop you topping yourself- the limit on shotgun shells would have to be very low to prevent that.
Thanks Jimmers never knew that ( about the ammo not paracetamol obvs ).
These card reader firms will be acting as correspondent banks or money services bureaus, which essentially back off the transactions to one of the big banks to process. Those big banks have whole teams working in their compliance departments keeping tabs on their ‘corries’ (and their customers) and typically flow down the same (or more stringent) policies that the bank applies to its own direct customers.
You might be able to fly under the radar for a while if you had lots of other goodthink customers using your MSB to hide the hunt clubs, but one established to solely serve this market wouldn’t get past the first application form.
Those setting the limit on paracetamol purchases don’t seem to have worked out that it’s available at more than one outlet. There are far better ways to off yourself, a cousin (50 years ago) O/D’d on paracetamol at uni – she was found, but died slowly in hospital from liver failure. Nasty way to go.
@ Ottokring
August 3, 2023 at 3:23 pm
Is there a limit on how many rounds of ammo one can buy ? You know, like paracetamol in Tescos.
No, though there are limits on how many you can store – it’s around 10,000 (to do with the net explosive quantity’ of the propellant). You don’t even need a certificate – you can buy them on behalf of a certificate owner, with their certificate and a letter. No requirement to store them securely either, which I’ve always found a bit odd. (Guns are a different matter of course.)
@Jimmers
August 3, 2023 at 4:24 pm
The limit will be what your shotgun/firearms licence allows you. You ask for what you need when applying for the licence and when the old bill approve your application that’s what you get. 1000 is very reasonable.
The limit at Tesco is to stop you topping yourself- the limit on shotgun shells would have to be very low to prevent that.
That’s news to me Jimmers! Never made such a declaration, never been asked about it.
Interested.
Might be a Norn Irish thing (tend to be a bit touchy about guns here!), but I’m only allowed to store 1000 at home. And they have to be stored safely- there’s no direct instruction to store under lock and key, but if they get nicked you have to show you had taken sufficient care, so locking them up separate to the guns is the sensible option.