“Car crash!” exclaimed managing director Andrew Varga, whose Brexit progress I have been following since the referendum. News of the latest Brexit U-turn landed on him on Tuesday out of the blue. All his years of preparation for a new UK product safety mark, all his thousands of pounds wasted, all the uncountable hours and effort were rendered pointless, at a stroke. Think, he says, of the great opportunity cost of that time and money, fruitlessly frittered instead of being invested in innovations and sales.
The government slipped out the news that it has abandoned a new product safety mark, UKCA (UK Conformity Assessed), which was intended to certify that products were checked to UK standards. The Brexiters rejected 30 years of using the European CE mark (whisper it, but it stands for the awful Conformité Européenne), recognised worldwide as a gold standard. All for what? Out of pure Brexit mania so that nationalist Britain would have its own, forcing double inspections. What’s more, all EU suppliers or exporters to the UK had to apply for the new UKCA mark, a strong disincentive to trade with the UK.
Nowhere does Polly manage to grasp the fact that a CE Mark – or the UKCA – is meaningless. You fill out a form, send it in with a cheque, then get it. It’s entirely filled out by the producer.
Not only doesn’t it check anything, it doesn’t even demand product conformity. It’s a document about how you monitor stuff. So, have you looked at product emissions *in the correct manner*. Have you got all the piles of documents that show you’re performing the process in the way the documents say the process should be performed?
A CE Mark doesn’t actually *do* anything at all. It’s purely a bureaucrat employment scheme.
Completely nothing to do with the above (Polly remains as soft a target as she always was), but whatever happened to Ecks? A couple of others from back in the day no longer much seen either… (Very long time reader, very rarely active BTL)…
I really approve of abolishing a useless piece of paperwork.
PS. I’m a FORMER bureaucrat!!
Tim, as someone who spent two decades “placing on the market” products for sale in the Single Market and “affixing the CE mark”, that’s not how it works. The CE mark signifies that the product complies with all applicable standards – requirements like not electrocuting folks, slicing off fingers, or causing interference on’t telly, or whatever is applicable for the product in question.
Sometimes it’s a self declaration (no cheque required), sometimes you need to use a Notified Body to certify (cheque required, but they do actual stuff like testing, not just bureaucracy).
That the EU is a stifling bureaucratic nightmare that we are well out of does not make what you wrote correct 😉
A CE mark is self certification and if there is any issue raised with a CE marked product, the requisite authority – trading standards for many products – will ask to see the technical file for the product. If this is not in order, or if there has been no evidence of at least some due diligence, then you can be in trouble.
It’s not a “global gold standard” at all, and to claim that it is reveals pantomime dame Polly as a deluded remainiac of the worst kind (damn, I never realised that before!) If you think that a CE mark enables you to ship a product anywhere in the world with no further national authority interest, well best of luck!
UKCA mark and CE mark are, for all practical purposes in the UK, the same thing. It’s just another label/marking on the product or its paperwork.
If this is what constitutes a “triumph” for remainaiacs, well, I’m not sure how much lower they can sink. Talk about clutching at straws. If you want to try this yourself at some time, then you’ll need to ask pantomime dame for one as I think she has them all!
Fixed it for her.
And anyway, all CE stands for nowadays is “China Export”.
You vote to leave the EU, because you want to improve society somewhat.
Seven years later, you read some rich dumb cunt in the Guardian celebrating the latest government decision not to improve society somewhat.
I hope she ate lots of EU certified beef. Mind you, she’d never believe it was mostly horse. In the UK we had actual inspectors who would look at the meat, sometimes through a microscope. In the EU as long as there was a piece of paper which read “THIS IS BEEF” it could whinny to its hearts content and nobody would be the wiser.
BiW: +1
I’ve just flipped my keyboard over and it says: CE FC VCI NOM NYCE R41126 N231 N00512 KCCREMDZL CULUS TUVGS ICES003. Twelve standards marks, and that’s a ten-quid keyboard.
“recognised worldwide as a gold standard. ”
What’s she on about? No one outside the EU even knows this mark exists. The whole rest of the world gets buy on goods that don’t meet the ‘gold standard’ of the EU.
And anyway, all CE stands for nowadays is “China Export”.
Or Caveat Emptor?
Haven’t abandoned UKCA, just said CE will do.
We should also say the US FCC/UL marks will do too, and whatever they use in Aus/NZ, and so on.
Also, as UKCA is currently same as CE, all the ‘years and thousands of £ of prep so far’ involves is buying some UKCA stickers, or adding the logo to the next run of product plates.
Completely nothing to do with the above (Polly remains as soft a target as she always was), but whatever happened to Ecks?
I don’t know, but the comment section is much more tolerable without him around.
Dunno. I always thought Ecksian solutions were something we all secretly prayed for but were reluctant to voice.
BiS
He would be having a field day with this bunch of charlatans- he did provide some entertainment, especially with the likes of Arnald and other delusional beings…
Agree with Ted though that you don’t need as thick a skin with him absent.
“A CE Mark doesn’t actually *do* anything at all.”
It’s as meaningless as your self-assessment tax return, which also is just paperwork accompanied by a cheque. Or, to put it in more sensible language, it is very much a meaningful and significant piece of paperwork which consists of you certifying that you have done the required work. If you are lying, various bad things happen.
The whole idea of a separate UK safety mark is completely and totally insane. I assume it is advocated by two idiotic groups who would vehemently disagree with each other if they ever realised what they stood for. One is the isolationists who want the UK to stand alone, have zero immigration, be fully self-sufficient on everything (so turnips all round for dinner), and generally ignore the rest of the world. The other consists of the deluded fools who think that we still have a great empire and that everyone else is hanging on our every word, so we can dictate to other countries how things are going to be.
The reality of a new safety mark is that it is a step backwards towards the days when selling internationally meant you had to have a shelf full of standards documents and submit your product to numerous national bodies for approval. That nonsense should be fully abandoned. What we need is fewer quality marks, not more. Ideally, the requirements would consist of only what is essential and there would be only one worldwide standard to conform to. Though that will probably never happen – e.g. all electrical devices sold in the UK have to have the three-pin plug as if any other plug would slaughter half the population. The plug requirement is generally handled by supplying a different cable (or, occasionally, multiple cables – such as for a laptop power supply) for each market.
There may be a slight benefit to relaxing the rules such that there are multiple recognised certification schemes so a product is permitted in the UK if it confirms to any of them but, in many areas, products we are likely to import will already be certified for CE marking.
Charles: the plug thing is actually important. Our plugs &, especially, sockets were designed to be safe. The circuit holes are shuttered and need the third pin to unshutter them. The plug also needs a fuse to protect the flex bit as the fuse box fuse/circuit breaker is rated much higher (ring main rather than star topology). Having used plugs in Europe, US and OZ/NZ, I think I prefer ours, despite the physical size issues.
As for the rest we ought to be more relaxed about accepting certifications from other administrations. But you need to be selective there – not all certifications are equal.
It would be nice if goods were manufactured to the same high standard worldwide, but that’s not case, nor is it likely to be.
A separate UK mark is hardly “insane”, it’s just how it’s handled.
If you want to sell a product internationally, you DO have submit it to a range of national bodies for approval. It’s a damn sight better than it was, say, 50 years ago, but if you think you don’t, I’ve got a submersible to sell you!
two idiotic groups who would vehemently disagree with each other if they ever realised what they stood for. One is the isolationists who want the UK to stand alone, have zero immigration, be fully self-sufficient on everything (so turnips all round for dinner), and generally ignore the rest of the world. The other consists of the deluded fools who think that we still have a great empire and that everyone else is hanging on our every word, so we can dictate to other countries how things are going to be.
Neither of these groups exist.
It’s not just the shuttering that’s better (and the fact that the earth pin is always in contact before the others) – the UK plug won’t fall out of the socket if you happen to glance at it in the wrong way. Very different from the flimsy US or European designs that seem to struggle to hold up the weight of the cable.
That 3-pin UK plug is probably one of the best mass-market designs ever, in any category.
This chap, Erik Vollebregt https://medicaldeviceslegal.com/ provides an excellent legal commentary on the EU developments around the medical devices legislation and CE marking, although he’s been pretty quiet since March.
@BiW
The great thing about the UK version of the 3-pin is you can reliably get it in the socket without looking at it. The two-pin plus earth strip they use here is a joke. The socket’s recessed for safety, rather than shuttered. So any toddler could stick a knitting needle in one. They’re virtually an invitation. And since they’re round you have to get down on your knees to line up pins with holes. At least the french version has the earth pin in the socket recess, which is slightly longer (as is the earth pin on Brit 3-pin) to start you off. Most Euro plugs have the hole for the French pin. But it doesn’t necessarily connect with anything. And not all French sockets have the corresponding ground for the earth strip. CE of course. Half of the fittings come from China on the CE mark but don’t conform to EU regs. There’s a manufacturer keeps sending me electrical equipment with US flat 2-pins on the cable & a round 2-pin multi adaptor. Except the adaptor won’t enter the Euro round recess. Far as I can work out, they’re some sort of Far East standard. India? Malaysia? But still coming in on CE. Been an absolute boon to me. I send photos of adaptor + socket to AliExpress & in due course they refund. I get to keep the goods. So I just re-plug them with a Euro & the item itself costs me 30¢. Bought dozens at 18€ list.
Reason why Euro fittings are crap? UK had a reasonably easy transition from the old large 3-pin & small 2/3-pin, round pin format, to the 3-pin square fused format. Just required some adaptors The Euro standard had to be backwards compatible with previous European formats. Even with the smaller orginal EU, did you ever see what the nations were using? Italy for instance! France was even regional. The only way to describe it is horrific. I can remember being in Spain late 60’s/early 70’s when plugging anything in gave you a better than even chance of getting a belt ( A lot of their house wiring including power supplies coming in are still at those standards. If anyone thinks they’ll be charging electric cars on that mess, think again)
Another thing about CE & China. Clothing sizes. Sellers will list in EU sizes & include a conversion chart for other regions. Goods arrive in Eurosize marked packaging. Presumably sizing is a CE standard. But a lot of the time, the dimensions of the garments don’t agree with the sizing. Generally smaller. Some of listings actually a small disclaimer that as the goods were measured by hand, there may be discrepancies. So they’re actually telling you they may not meet CE standards. Yet they’re still coming in with CE marks.
In practise one just gets used to it & orders appropriately. But there some mens jackets came in labelled as EU Large wouldn’t even have made EU Small. Would have fitted in a children’s range.
CE is basically a very long comedy script.
@Charlie T.
I miss Mr Ecks too and ‘Lord Care Home” and a few others
@BiW
British Standards kite mark, recognised worldwide as a gold standard
Very true. Then Blair, EU, UN ISO destroyed it and replaced with ESG, DIE box ticking
@Tractor Gent
Our plugs &, especially, sockets were designed to be safe. The circuit holes are shuttered and need the third pin to unshutter them. The plug also needs a fuse to protect the flex bit as the fuse box fuse/circuit breaker is rated much higher (ring main rather than star topology). Having used plugs in Europe, US and OZ/NZ, I think I prefer ours, despite the physical size issues
Correct. There’s a YT video by a yank confirming UK plugs and ring mains are best in world. Although he admits they have the Lego problem if stood on
@BiS
UK had a reasonably easy transition from the old large 3-pin & small 2/3-pin, round pin format, to the 3-pin square fused format
Agree, transition from unfused 15, 5 and 2 amp plugs to 13 amp fused plugs was straght forward – shame they all came with 13A fuse installed. Most later 5 & 15 amp plugs also had partially insulated L&N pins too
Plus, pins are copper not steel
.
The video:
British Plugs and Outlets Are On Another Level
I’m a proud American, but these British plugs are pretty cool
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=139Q61ty4C0
The pins are brass, Pcar. Copper they’d be wearing out & bent in a short period. Copper’s a good conductor but lousy mechanically. Trouble with the dagos is, they not only use steel inside the sockets. They also build leaky houses. I’ll leave connecting the dots to the reader.
@BiS
Thanks for correction :facepalm Copper too malleable, adding zinc strengthens