It can take me some time

There was a Play for Today many years ago, where the premise was that the National Farmers Union had become an underground organisation engaged in a guerilla war against the Forestry Commission.

And how many people are now wondering if the novel character was based on someone they know?

Or “The President’s Analyst” where the enemy turned out to be the phone company.

I think. It’s been a while since I watched it.

OT, but fucking Hell:

Ukraine can also play its part. The average age of the soldiers at the front is over 40. I understand President Zelensky’s desire to preserve the young for the future, but
–Ben Wallace, in a Times article explaining that “Ukraine is winning”

Alternately, if you’re 19 months into a war of attrition with a much bigger country and your front lines look like the cast of Dad’s Army, it’s probably because all the most eligible 19 year olds are mobilised, injured, dead or refugees now.

Ben Wallace was a very junior officer, wasn’t he?

Steve,

I’m struggling to understand Ben Wallace when there are lots of Americans privately saying stuff that’s entirely different? I guess they must have different sources …..

Tim,

Are the “redirection” bugs all solved..:)

@ Steve
–Ben Wallace, in a Times article explaining that “Ukraine is winning”

It’s a Telegraph article:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/10/01/ben-wallace-ukraine-counteroffensive-succeeding/

If you interpret Wallace’s “the front” as being the currently active fighting areas then you have to accept that Russia is being pushed back or held back by a bunch of old farts. This would seem unlikely.

However, if you define “the front” as anywhere realistically subject to large or small scale attack by Russian ground forces, a glance at a map will show that this is nearly all of the Ukrainian border, along with the invasion contact line within country, plus the unoccupied coast. The borders with Russia and Belarus obviously have to be heavily defended, and that with Transnistria (Moldova) has to be actively secured. Despite Russian naval setbacks, the free coasts still have to be defended. With a front like that, an average age of over 40 is perfectly reasonable and the Dad’s Army moniker appropriate. Even on the contact line it is perfectly sensible to use older men in support roles and even man combat positions in quiet zones.

The Ukrainian troops I see in the bodycam combat footage seem pretty young for the most part.

Regarding the Ukrainians , as some wag once opined, if this is winning what the fuck does losing look like……

I would rather Putin hadn’t invaded, but it does seem to have been telegraphed for a very long time, and with lots of opportunities to avoid it eg Ukraine and NATO just saying, formally, that Ukraine wouldn’t be joining NATO.

The Yanks seem to have wanted and to be revelling in the war and not to give too much of a toss how many Ukrainians are dying, and will die.

I used to be a true believer in our military adventures, having had some experience in a variety of ways, but no longer.

I don’t personally care about Ukraine any more than I care about any other country in the world getting partially invaded – as above, I’d rather that war didn’t happen, anywhere, but I am at a complete loss to understand the enthusiasm with which people support Ukraine.

There are two people in my village still saying Ukrainian flags who I know to a certainty cannot point the place out on a map.

British squaddies are heading there now; fighting Iraqis 3,500 miles away is one thing. Fighting Russia is another entirely – if we lose, that’s bad. If we win, that might be worse: unlike Saddam, Putin actually could wipe out British cities.

I don’t think we should ever have gone beyond expressions of deep sympathy.

Addolff – Right? Pyrrhus wept.

PJF – so I take your “really ares” to be a bunch of arse

Take it however you like. I’m not the one who’s emotionally invested in Commando stories and Stavros Uganda narratives.

But note that it’s not me telling the Ukies they’re too old, that’s Ben Wallace.

If we listen to you, Colonel Macgregor and Tucker Carlson, Ukraine won’t be a country anymore

Ukraine will never recover its war losses to date, has already spunked its big counteroffensive to no avail, and has zero prospect of victory on the battlefield.

Their “friends” Really Are encouraging them to commit national suicide, because that’s what becoming a failed state will entail for Ukraine.

How much territory, material and population can or should they be expected to lose, before the US stops the helicopter money and Poland is forced to absorb the rump Ukrainian state? That’s the direction of travel they’re heading in. 250,000 dead so far*, millions more permanently gone abroad, and Ukraine had desperate demographic and economic problems before the war.

One of the curiosities of this war is that it’s the people who are accused of being Vlad Putin’s bum chums who are most concerned about saving Ukrainian lives.

*Lowball optimistic estimate

– What actual evidence is there that Russia had or has plans to invade anywhere else?

What actual evidence do you want? Invasion plans? Vlads big strategic online scrapbook? Putin / Russia has been on about reestablishing Russian might for decades and have done invasions to that effect. They say they’re going to it and they do it. It’s right there in front of you.

– Why and how and by whom would Ukrainian men to be drafted in to fight if it happened?

Resourse of fighting age men. By forced conscription or by “volunteers” from puppet groups. By the Russians. See Chechnya – Russia is using men from a conquered land to fight against a land it is trying to conquer. Right now.

– what evidence is there that anyone is listening to Steve, Colonel McGregor or Ticker Carlson?

Support for Ukraine is a partisan political issue for the US 2024 election.

. . . we’re sending troops . . .

We’re not.

@PJF

You must have misunderstood my question. I was asking for *evidence* of this plan to conquer more of Europe, not just people – you or anyone else – saying it. Can you point me to somewhere where Putin has said it as you are claiming?

In respect of Chechens fighting for Russia, they seem to be among the most enthusiastic fighters. They don’t seem to be press-ganged. I suspect their motivations are more complex – there are Chechens fighting for Ukraine as well. But I don’t know. I doubt that Russia will be able to conscript Ukrainian soldiers post war, and again this is just your assertion.

In respect of support for Ukraine being a partisan political issue, it seems broadly speaking to be partisan as between most politicians of both parties and the growing proportion of the electorate which is weary of this war – but so what? Is it your contention that the preference not to throw billions after billions into this when their own economy is fucked, as adopted by some, not all, Republicans, is as a result of them visiting this blog, or Twitter? In other words, do you contend that it is impossible that they may have reached this conclusion themselves?

If there is good evidence – and yes, Putin’s battle plans would be nice – that Russia will move on elsewhere once it has annexed whatever proportion of Ukraine it wants to then I am more understanding of the general western response.

I just haven’t seen that evidence, other than people like you and senile Joe Biden stating that it is the case.

Yeah, well Boganboy, Azerbaijan is backed by Turkey who supposedly is on our side.

It’s all a bit tricky innit ?

I remember this all blowing up in the early 1990s, but then both sides just had muskets. Now they have tanks.