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It’s amazing how few people have a memory

I know how significant apartheid in South Africa was in my own political development at a great many levels.

OK.

Now, think back to what the non-racist right was saying back then. Allowing in the ANC, the commies, to run an industrial economy will lead to economic disaster. What has happened?

But the progressives still insist that they’re on the right side of history here. As with Venezuela and so on.

24 thoughts on “It’s amazing how few people have a memory”

  1. You reckon the ANC were communists? Very naive of you. Reckon the racist right were more accurate with their appreciation of the situation & their predictions.

  2. Allowing *ANY* government to run the economy results in disaster. “The economy” is as “the weather”. It’s naming that thing that emerges from the interactions of things within it.

  3. OT (sorry) but only slightly OT, because the topic is memory.

    A tale of two stories:

    Take away Russia’s nuclear weapons – for Putin is finished and his country may soon collapse -Baron (Daniel ) Hannan of Kingsclere, 5 months ago

    Putin’s Russia is closing in on a devastating victory. Europe’s foundations are trembling – Baron (Daniel ) Hannan of Kingsclere, yesterday

    We last saw this type of manic whip-sawing by our Betters during Covid.

    Are the elites OK? They seem afraid.

  4. The problem that National Party run SA had was that it existed only while it was strategically expedient.

    Once the Cold War had ended, the Apartheid State’s fate was sealed. The fact that the ANC would destroy the economy was factored in and the country would become too chaotic to be a threat to anyone. As long ast the Soviets didn’t get hold of it, that was important.

    The best thing that could happen is that the Union dissolves or a proper Strong Man takes over violently and crushes the corruption.

    Chances ? Fat.

  5. The anti-apartheid thing was weird.

    Why would you wish harm on other white people? (I was that naive)

    Of course, the apartheid system was as inherently absurd and unsustainable as our present British government is or Sparta was.

    Instead of being weird racists with a farcical colour grading system they should’ve been proper racists like 99.99% of all other humans throughout history, and simply carved out a defensible territory to be exclusively populated by themselves and their posterity. That’s how proper countries are made.

    Which, tbf, is what the Dutch voortrekkers imagined?

    But big business interests love dem dat cheap labour, to Harambe with the long term consequences.

  6. Bloke in North Dorset

    If you were against Apartheid you joined the ANC which meant it was a very broad political church, albeit with a predominantly communist leadership. But it wasn’t a political party in the western sense even though they had a shadow government in waiting based in Switzerland.

    The worst thing that happened was they got treated as political and elected in a landslide. Instead of splitting in to traditional parties.

    The SNP is a similar position. Being united by the single issue of independence doesn’t mean that they’re going to be good at governance.

  7. @Steve – “Why would you wish harm on other white people? (I was that naive)”

    Let me introduce you to the concept of racism, which is the idea that you should favour some people, who are no closer relative of yours than many others, merely because of a superficial similarity. It’s vere common and pernicious, so it is common for those who can see the bad consequences of racism to oppose it, even (or especially) when that conflicts with them beiong racist themselves.

  8. Charles – Yes, how awful of me to have love in my heart for people who are share my genetic heritage, or culture, or religion.

    This crazy idea of in-group preferences will never catch on amongst normal humans in real life, thank Allah!

    PS – the story behind the phrase “blood is thicker than water” is one that should make every Englishman’s heart swell. Not in a Covid vaccines way, you understand.

    In a good way.

  9. Charles: could you explain that again as I didn’t understand it the first time.

    I self declare as a racist, meaning that I have no expectation that peoples of different backgrounds should have equal outcomes if all our institutions were colour blind. If you had 4 uninhabited islands, of equal size with equal hardships and equal soil quality and populated them with a controlled for education sample of Japs, Jews, Sunnis and CPRE members and came back in 50 years time, then I’m not betting on the last two groups to be building a Tui Keng Leng.

  10. “Which, tbf, is what the Dutch voortrekkers imagined?”

    The Cape Dutch were keen on keeping slaves – Bushmen, Hottentots, Malays, ….

    They only tracked off into the interior because they were pissed off by the British abolition of slavery.

  11. Bloke in the Fourth Reich

    The world: surely there is no worse way to run a country than Apartheid?

    South Africa: Hold my beer…

  12. Bongo – what about that African planet on Star Trek: TNG where the local king took a shine to Tasha Yar and organised a breakdancing competition to win the white lady?

    They had spaceships presumably.

    If it hadn’t been for a white man inventing racism and slavery back in the olden days, by now African technology would have made David Olosuga Professor of Blackness Studies at Alpha or possibly Beta Centauri University, and Lenny Henry would be funny.

    We should pay reparations in the form of a national programme offering free breakdancing lessons to underprivileged urban youth. Also, Tuvok from Voyager was Black, you RACIST!

  13. Moslem and black African countries have high levels of sex discrimination and misogyny. Russian troops rape with impunity. Rap lyrics are hateful.
    So you might expect feminists to favour Israel, Christians, Ukrainians, and places where these injustices happen less often.
    But there doesn’t seem to be a gender divide among supporters or opponents of Russia, Hamas, etc.
    The feminists have lost their heads and need them screwing back on, it would seem.

  14. so it is common for those who can see the bad consequences of racism to oppose it,
    Apart from me missing out on my girlfriend & possibly some spicy foods, it’s hard to see bad consequences from racism. If you’re the one doing the racism. It’s not as if one doesn’t benefit from their culture. The French being a good example. That doesn’t require being nice to them or accepting them as equals.
    As Steve said, what’s wrong with feeling more comfortable people with ones genetic heritage or culture? Unless, of course, one doesn’t like ones own culture. Which seems to be pretty prevalent these days. And maybe that’s telling us something?

  15. If you had 4 uninhabited islands, of equal size with equal hardships and equal soil quality and populated them with a controlled for education sample of Japs, Jews, Sunnis and CPRE members and came back in 50 years time, then I’m not betting on the last two groups to be building a Tui Keng Leng.
    Wouldn’t bet on the Jews either. They’d still be arguing over the 51 opinions of what to build.

  16. I doubt he gave Apartheid 10 seconds thought back in the day. An unusually carefully crafted post to play to the prejudices of his younger readership.

    What it does confirm is his overt anti- semitism. So the next time he starts drivelling on about ‘incipient fascism’ his hypocrisy’s will be even more blatant..

  17. It’s also worth reiterating – if Hamas stood down and said that it respected Israel’s right to exist there would be a ceasefire within the hour. However, its position is that the entire country and its people have to be destroyed. You think a ceasefire with such an ideology is a wise tactical move?

  18. You think a ceasefire with such an ideology is a wise tactical move?

    It’s worth always reminding the terrorism supporters that there was a ceasefire in place. It lasted until the 6th of October.

    The IDF has learned from at least some of its prior tactical errors though, which is why its stated aim is to totally wipe out all islamic terrorists in the area. And rightly too.

  19. Bloke in Wales

    Spot on – it’s also worth reminding a couple of home truths:

    – The Nazis had to bribe their soldiers with copious quantities of alcohol or rope in prisoners of war to do their dirty work, and then went to significant lengths to try and destroy the evidence. Hamas and their witless Western backers (like Murphy) openly boasted of their barbarity across social media

    – If Israel falls then what odds that the Rest of the West falls in fairly short order? We’ve seen countless atrocities both large and small scale committed across Western Europe in the past three decades or more by Islamic extremists. Peaceful co-existence with this ‘Religion of Peace’ appears to be the better part of a pipedream.

  20. VP – The Nazis had to bribe their soldiers with copious quantities of alcohol or rope in prisoners of war to do their dirty work, and then went to significant lengths to try and destroy the evidence

    Yarp.

    Why? Because Even the best army is doomed to fail when it is required to perform impossible tasks, that is, when it is ordered to campaign against the national existence of other peoples – General Paulus

    See also: “liberal” military interventions. 20 years rolling around in the Sandbox did nothing to strengthen Western militaries, quite the opposite in fact.

    The armed forces are a bit like a Swiss Army Knife, they have a few tools but can still be easily damaged or broken if used incorrectly. We were never going to turn Afghans into democratic secularists by dint of the Parachute Regiment occupying their capital.

    In fact, that didn’t even work in NornIron.

  21. Lenny Henry being funny… A long time ago in a galaxy far far away…

    A good commentary on Afrikaner attitudes at the turn of the last century is John Buchan’s Prester John containing a rather ham fisted Boer attempt to justify slavery. A cracking good adventure though.

  22. Otto – I always liked Buchan’s books.

    They’re good adventure stories and English teachers hate him. How could a boy fail to love that combination?

    Dearieme – I’m not racist or anything, but I would only want to own slaves who are physically attractive and have good personal hygiene and big knockers.

  23. I missed this yesterday Tim So Coming in late to the discussion despite my earlier – I just went in and looked at the source article from Chakrabortty – he is appalling but even by his standards it’s a chilling piece.

    Effectively he’s saying that young people are openly anti- Semitic, support the complete destruction of Israel and its incumbent upon our political leaders to recognise that and accommodate it – So basically he and Murphy are craven anti- Semite’s of the most base kind. If ever Murphy berates anyone for fascism, you can point to that and prove that he is basically to all intents and purposes a Nazi collaborator – the heir to Vichy.

  24. @Steve – “the story behind the phrase “blood is thicker than water” is one that should make every Englishman’s heart swell”

    I’m not aware of any story contrary to the usual meaning which refers to nepotism.

    @Bongo – “could you explain that again as I didn’t understand it the first time”

    Racism is bad because it is a form of prejudice. This is where someone is judged, not for what they are themselves, but for membership of a group. Even when there is a rational basis for the prejudice, it can be harmful. For example, if you want to employ someone in a job which invilves lifting heavy items, and you know that on average men are stronger than women, you might be tempted to apply that prejudice to discard all female applicants. But what you should really be doing is measuring the property you care about. Even if nine out of ten of the best applicants are men, you would be losing out by rejecting the tenth.

    As a species, humanity is very homogenous, so variation from one individual to another is large compared to variation between groups. As Tim has pointed out, taste discrimination is economically a bad thing. If you wanted to populate an uninhabited island, you would be putt yourself at a significant disadvantage by allowing race, religion, or similar criteria to be used to select the people to send.

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