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The bit they never do the work upon

OK, super, lovely. Now, how do those investments in green and local things make money? What’s the return to the investment?

No, not what’s the benefit to society at large, to the cutlure, not even to the commissars who get to run it. What’s the return that the investors manage to capture? What’s the interest payment, the dividend, the profit stream, thrown off by those investments which then flows to the investors?

Without that there’s no investment to be made of course. Further, with that then why does there need to be any direction or forcing of investment?

Who pays how much to the investors for these investments? Solve that and you might actually solve the problem. But what’s the one thing they never do talk about?

36 thoughts on “The bit they never do the work upon”

  1. “£100bn a year”. He always looks at the amount going in, never the amount withdrawn. He thinks he’ll have £100bn new funds every year to spend.

    In 2021, for example, there were around £4.5bn more in withdrawals from cash ISAs than deposits.

    Nor does he ever, for a moment, consider that a government might decide on different priorities than he imagines when deciding what investments are “socially and environmentally necessary”.

  2. I was reading an article in DW. What a horrible shitty mess the Germans have gotten themselves into:

    While countries like the US and even France are growing, the German economy is set to shrink by 0.4% this year.

    A survey conducted by the Federal Association of German Employers (BDA) this month shows that 82% of the surveyed business owners express great concerns about the state of the German economy. Some 88% think the government has no plan whatsoever on how to handle the crises.

    If Germany doesn’t work, Europe doesn’t work. But there’s no apparent sympathy for Germany from other EU provinces, whose local gauleiters have been complaining like fuck about the Krauts subsidising their domestic industry.

    Adding to these are Germany’s costly transition to a carbon-neutral economy, a massive infrastructure backlog, the country’s slow pace of digitalization, as well as a lack of skilled labor and excessive bureaucracy.

    Suicidal levels of replacement migration – literally millions and millions of uninvited guests – and yet there’s never enough “skilled labour”.

    Anyway, the solution to excessive bureaucracy is:

    In mid-October, Habeck surprised the German public with a so-called Industrial Strategy — a 60-page catalog of urgently needed measures and plenty of state subsidies to make them a reality over the coming years.

    With the plan, the economics minister is following in the footsteps of US President Joe Biden, who is currently shelling out a total of $740 billion (€700 billion) for investments in greener US industries. Called the Inflation Reduction Act, Biden’s plan includes massive tax incentives alongside direct subsidies.

    Why are German industries failing?

    Germany’s roughly two decades of outstanding economic success had been firmly rooted in cheap Russian energy that companies here turned into goods with a competitive advantage on world markets. Germany was the so-called export champion of the world for many years, and products “Made in Germany” became global hallmarks of quality.

    Without cheap Russian gas, industrial companies now have to rely on supplies of more expensive liquefied natural gas (LNG).

    As a result, German electricity prices surged to become the highest in the world due to the expensive reliance on gas for power production

    How expensive?

    Under his new strategy, Habeck is now calling for a subsidized electricity price for the industry of 6 eurocents ($0.063) per kilowatt-hour. By comparison, Germans are still paying about 40 eurocents for their retail electricity supply, while industries in the US or France enjoy prices as low as 4 eurocents.

    Oof. Trying to cover losses that big with state subsidies is putting an elaster plaster on an axe wound to the chest.

    The fixed industrial electricity price is viewed with a wary eye, first and foremost, within Habeck’s party of environmentalists. Making energy cheaper runs counter to green climate ideology

    You don’t say.

    Also, there’s the small problem that Germany is skint:

    With German state coffers virtually running on empty amid the multiple and costly crises, a political consensus about how the subsidized industrial electricity price could be financed seems elusive.

    That article was from the start of November. Since then, they seem to have plumped for a bewildering range of complicated subsidies and exemptions from various evil green schemes and levies, that is projected to cost suffering German taxpayers €12Bn a year.

    Feels a lot like trying to lift yourself by your own bootstraps, eh? They haven’t solved the problem (insufficient cheap energy) or even begun to solve the problem, all they’ve done is force beaten-down German taxpayers to help pay Siemens’ leccy bills, while the underlying cost of everything is ratcheted ever higher by Net Zero.

    The Germans want fried ice and dry water. They want to be a great industrial country but also want to power everything via the world’s most expensive unicorn farts. They want to “defeat Russia” while defeating themselves. Something’s gotta give, something’s gotta give, something’s gotta give.

  3. PS – wasn’t a strategic lack of energy resources the main reason Germany’s last argument with Russia went so poorly for Germany?

    I seem to remember some unpleasantness around Stalingrad, en route to the Caucasus oil fields.

    How is it possible that our rulers have forgotten the Tesco Basics of how wars are won? I dunno, but we haven’t won a war since 1982, and the Krauts haven’t won a war since 1871. Maybe that lack of successful war experiences this century should be a clue to something.

    Boris Johnson was always showing off his classical education, yet he himself has learned nothing of value from Greece or Rome. He can spout quotations in schoolboy Latin, but he doesn’t really understand, so the only purpose is showing off us. See also: Rashee, Pigfucker, etc.

    Very expensively educated fools.

  4. What’s the interest payment, the dividend, the profit stream, thrown off by those investments which then flows to the investors?
    That’s easy. It will be 1% per year and will be paid from funds coming in from new investors. A bit like the State Retirement Pension. Heck, just call it the Green State Retirement Pension, change nothing else, and Colin’s demand is met as levelling up funding comes from the central pot anyways.

  5. In what alternative universe does not levying tax on pensions or ISAs equate to it being a subsidy?

    If the fat twat thinks I’m going to let him steal my money then he is in for a surprise. I’ll take it somewhere where it can’t be spunked trying to keep the current clown show economy from collapsing.

  6. Further to Joe Smith’s pertinent comments re “investment” v “stealing”… One wonders whether Messrs Murphy and Hines should be prosecuted for conspiracy to commit grand larceny.

  7. Bloke in North Dorset

    Steve,

    The double whammy is that the German government was getting round its debt brake by using money from the Corona and Ahr Valley emergency funds to fund its climate change idiocy. The constitutional court told them in no uncertain terms that the €60bn they were using to smooth and lower those energy prices as well as pay for some of the heat pump madness was unconstitutional and illegal and they have a corresponding budget hole.

    Its also worth noting that Germans have now realised that perhaps Mutti wasn’t the saviour they, and the rest of the European elite classes, thought and she’s fast becoming a non person.

  8. BiND – Yarp, imagine living like this:

    German authorities have increased security at Cologne Cathedral following warnings of a possible attack plot.

    Worshippers attending the Christmas Eve service were told to arrive early and avoid bringing large bags with them.

    The city’s police chief said information pointed to threats over New Year’s Eve rather than Christmas, but security would be boosted nonetheless.

    There have been heightened fears of attacks in several European countries over the festive period.

    Cowering in your own country like a beaten dog.

  9. So what happens when Mrs Smith wants to withdraw her ISA money to pay for her new conservatory? Sorry Mrs S, your money has been ‘invested’ in some rocket scientists we imported from Somalia, and its gone…….

  10. Jim – who’s going to be buying (or be allowed to buy) a new conservatory under Net Zero?

    All that PVC and glass creates a lot of emissions, and good luck trying to heat a conservatory in winter with a heat pump.

    And, as if by magic, an arsehole appears from the British identified government:

    From June, any conservatory intended as part of a new development will need to show it will not create ‘unwanted solar gain’.

    The change is part of a raft of measures aimed at future-proofing homes against summers where temperatures are predicted to reach 40C (104F).

    Though well above what is currently experienced in Britain, such highs would cause conservatories to become unbearably hot, often increasing the temperature uncomfortably indoors too.

    The new rules, which also aim to improve domestic ventilation and reduce greenhouse gas emissions by 30 per cent, will limit window sizes according to which direction they face and whether the home is likely to overheat.

    Conservatories that are unheated and separated from the house with exterior walls and doors may be exempt.

    But others will face complex and expensive modelling to show they will not become too hot in the summer – limiting the use of trendy floor-to-ceiling glass.

    As a result, conservatories may become a premium product, unaffordable on cheaper new properties.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10416599/New-climate-change-rules-outlaw-new-build-conservatories-create-unwanted-solar-gain.html

    I mean, people could just manage their own homes, open a window if it’s too hot, but where’s the Net Zero punishment beating in that?

    Not sure why the proles haven’t caught on yet that they’re being turned into slaves.

  11. It is their duty to turn our savings…
    He’s somewhat anticipating the centrally controlled state of his dreams.

    … into an economy of hope.
    Never mind, maybe in the next Five Year Plan, eh?

    That would be a vote winner.
    With 99.7% of the vote. The other 0.3% will be attending a re-education facility on Gruinard.

  12. Steve

    I am hoping that the collapse you feel has to occur with the stupidity of our rulers does happen sooner rather than later.

    Arguably my biggest issue with the article is this assumption:

    ‘Politicians must stop crushing hope for the future.’

    Yet he supports

    – Net Zero
    – Hamas
    – Big Trans
    – The European Union

    How would support for any of those be providing ‘hope for the future’ – Net Zero will lead to total starvation. Big Trans literally want to chop of people’s goolies. Hamas would throw you off a building and the EU is committed to making all three (and a raft of other undesirables) into immutable laws? Where on Earth is the hope in that bucket?

    It is their duty to turn our savings into an economy of hope

    Given they have spent incalculable sums on:
    – Imprisoning the entire population over a cold
    – Importing millions of hostile men of alien origin and housing them and feeding them at the taxpayer’s expense
    – Implementation of policies (‘Net Zero’) that will led to mass starvation of tens of millions
    – A disastrous war in Ukraine that leaves us dependent on broomsticks for national defense when the millions of hostiles are attacking the ordinary populace

    I really think they should be leaving those savings alone.

  13. VP – I dunno if you’ve heard about the “Eunuch Maker” case (and I don’t blame you or your hopefully settled stomach if you haven’t). It involves various “queer activists” mutilating each other.

    Here’s the caption to a photograph in the Daily Mail:

    Japanese artist Mao Sugiyama became a famous ‘nullo’ in 2012 after having his genitals removed, freezing them and then cooking and serving them at a banquet

    My conclusion is that we are in a spiritual war against the forces of Hell, and only Christ can save us.

  14. It’s possible that fighting to preserve one’s retirement savings from those who think they can spend them better than you will become one of the great battles of the next generation. I’m a bit hopeful about that fight as old farts vote.

  15. In summary, the proposal is to use OTHER PEOPLE’S savings to implement his master plan.

    It’s always other people who have to make the sacrifices. Where are his proposals that require public sector workers to have their pension contributions invested in this stuff, instead of their guaranteed, defined benefit pensions?

    Nowhere of course, because that might actually affect him.

    He’s a #1 c*nt.

  16. Tim

    You are willfully misunderstanding the technical term ‘investment’.

    In its older sense, it meant in essence putting current wealth into a future action which was expected – with some risk – to return substantially more than the amount put in. Thus, an ‘investment’ is Good Thing.

    But the Left is always looking for words to steal and misuse; thus they have stolen ‘invest’ and ‘investment’. ‘Invest’ is now simply a long form of ‘spend’.

    And this usage is accepted and widely used..

  17. BIT,
    The term ‘investment’ to the left has always meant taking money from you and ‘investing’ in things that will get them reelected. (See “Robbing Peter to pay Paul” for further details.)

  18. Wow, how’s this for a gratuitous insults:

    Simon Fawthrop says:
    December 28 2023 at 4:17 pm
    There may well be a return on those investments, but you are asking us to take the risk that it is at least the same as the investments that we choose to make and on which we have based our retirement plans. After 50 years working and saving I’d prefer to take my own investment decisions.

    Perhaps if you are so confident you could get the pension industry to set up a fund and let people invest voluntarily?

    And before you reply, I am aware of your arguments that some of my pension and savings was tax free on the way in and has been earning tax free interest. That’s the deal we had with the government at the time and retroactive legislation is always a bad idea because it destroys trust in government and that is already at an all time low.

    0
    Richard Murphy says:
    December 28 2023 at 4:59 pm
    You mean those investment decisions that are destroying the planet?

    Politely, stop being a) stupid b) so self centred that you think the state must subsidise your stupidity and c) so lacking in observational power that you cannot see that there is not an iota of compulsion about this. No money has to take a state subsidy to save.

    I’ll bet this doesn’t get through:

    “That was an unwarranted and gratuitous reply to some genuine questions. I can now see why you have earned your reputation as intemperate and thin-skinned.”

  19. Meanwhile, the benefits of diversity back home has brought us immigrants fighting each other and murdering a chap trying to calm them down. The peacemaker was a n-th generation decendant of the first wave immigrants who integrated, and they are right royally pissed off with the tribal barbarians coming in now.

  20. Simon Fawthrop

    It’s the self- righteousness in conjunction with the manifest ignorance that grates…

    ‘The Investment decisions that are destroying the planet’

    Like:

    – Mining rare Earths
    – Producing hundreds of thousands of wind turbines and solar panels that can’t be recycled
    – Producing millions of batteries that are similarly impossible to recycle

    What an utterly repellent piece of crap

  21. Steve

    Many magisterial posts. None better than the first regarding winning the war. Obviously PJF is working for (at least indirectly) the CIA but my main beef with the ‘strategy’ in Ukraine is you’re frittering away scarce resources in an unwinnable ‘skirmish’ to protect a senile criminal from exposure (Biden) – to win a war takes considerable advance planning. Something alien to both the current cabinet and their shadow counterparts.

    Was watching in channel surfing the 1997 film ‘Con Air’ – and one line that sticks:

    ‘Cyrus, we’re four White guys short- in Other words – we be f£&ked’

    It’s a sentiment I can foresee being repeated ad nauseam in the West, except it won’t be just four guys…..

  22. Steve

    That’s X rated for sure on the ‘eunuch maker’- I am reminded of 2 Timothy 3:

    ‘ But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God— having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with such people.’

    It seems an apt description of ‘The state we’re in’

  23. Trouble with your “Wordz of Timmy” extract, V-P, is you could be quoting The Blessed Spud direct from source. It depends how you define all those abstracts. That’s why I so despise God botherers. They’re just another bunch of cvnts want you to live your life the way they want you to. And at heart, the Sage of Ely’s just another God Botherer on a mission of faith. He Believes! So you must too.

  24. A true Christian doesn’t judge others and doesn’t insist on making others do things a particular way,
    They just try and manage their own lives by certain rules.

    Pretty much the opposite of Murphy.

  25. If the fat twat thinks I’m going to let him steal my money then he is in for a surprise. I’ll take it somewhere where it can’t be spunked trying to keep the current clown show economy from collapsing.

    The first act of Lord Protector Spudcup would be to prevent anyone taking money out of the country. Fortunately even Starmer and Reeves couldn’t be daft enough to follow his advice … could they?

  26. Colin Hines:

    “Just as it appears that the government is beginning to take back control of the NHS from inefficient aspects of private-sector involvement, so the same kind of “smart, activist state” is required to decarbonise and make energy-efficient the UK’s 30m buildings. Such a massive programme providing jobs in every constituency could be paid for by offering green Isas at an interest rate of, say, 1% to attract huge swathes of the £70bn invested in this annually. This programme could be underwritten by green quantitative easing, whereby the Bank of England electronically creates the money involved and no government debt is incurred.”

  27. BiS

    You’re the man of course in that you point out that it’s Murphy’s world and we merely live in it!!

    I agree to a large extent and am not especially religious but the Christian teachings have lasted millennia – Big Trans has effectively destroyed centuries of civilisation and enables the molestation of millions in about a decade. Can’t see the equivalence myself. You are right that Murphy ‘considers himself a Quaker’ but he fulfils the scriptures To a tee. He is:

    – a lover of himself
    – a lover of money (especially of other peoples)
    – boastful
    – proud
    – abusive
    – ungrateful
    – without love
    – unforgiving (25,000 blocks on Twitter)
    – slanderous
    – without self-control
    – brutal,
    – not lovers of the good
    – treacherous
    – rash
    – conceited
    – having a form of godliness but denying its power.

    To paraphrase Meatloaf ‘15 out of 18’ ain’t bad…

  28. They are trying this in my area – defined benefit pensions.
    Government says “make it easier for companies like Andrew Again’s to invest in ‘productive assets’ rather than the regulator [PRA] pushing them into the safest and most secure possible”.
    PAR says “Err ok, but we have rule making powers and these are the new rules”
    Business says “Err hang on. Those rules. They don’t make it easier, they make it harder”
    Government says “We’ve made it easier for Andrew Again’s firm to invest in ‘productive assets’ so now we go to chase the next squirrel”

  29. @TD – December 28, 2023 at 2:31 pm

    I’m a bit hopeful about that fight as old farts vote.

    Problem is that too many of them vote by habit rather than intelligence… That’s why millions of them will dutifully trot out and put their crosses against whichever member of the Uniparty that their tribe supports.

    … and I say this as a genuine “old fart”.. 🙁

  30. “He seems to fulfil the essential criteria of the religious, V_P. My god’s rules are for thee not me.”

    Thats not my experience of religious people, Christians at least. They are generally pretty good at sticking to the rules they espouse for others. Other religions I couldn’t say though.

    I’d say Spud’s behaviour is more described by our hosts favourite word, antinomianism, the idea that if you are on the side of righteousness then the usual moral laws don’t apply to you. That is the Left in a nutshell – the ends justifies the means. So of course Spud feels he is entitled to behave like a c*nt, he’s doing righeous work, and thus by definition anything he says or does is good.

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