Man dies from measles in Ireland
It is the first confirmed case of measles in Ireland this year
We all know that measles can kill, obviously. But for the one single case so far this year to end in death – and of an adult – is somewhat unlucky, no?
Man dies from measles in Ireland
It is the first confirmed case of measles in Ireland this year
We all know that measles can kill, obviously. But for the one single case so far this year to end in death – and of an adult – is somewhat unlucky, no?
I’m surprised that Ireland has such a low incidence of measles. Over here it’s becoming a problem in kids again because of the (confected) MMR scare and a more general suspicion of vaccines recently.
File under they’re not telling us the full story.
We aren’t told the gentleman’s age, which would be a useful, but not perfect, indicator, as to whether he has had the vaccine.
The issue being, we do not know, and cannot yet know, for how long the vaccine is effective. As a common childhood infection (when I was growing up EVERYONE got it) it is usually uncomplicated (yes, I know, and I did have a friend who spent months in a wheelchair after it). Infection as a child, usually without complication, does however generally confer immunity for life. And you really, really, don’t want to get this as an adult. Ever.
Does the vaccine confer immunity for life or do we now have hundreds of millions of people walking around who were spared infant infection but at increasing risk of very much to be avoided adult infection?
BiFR – ‘as to whether he has had the vaccine’
Whether or not he had the vaccine himself, I think we can assume he grew up during a time of widespread vaccination, as it’s incredibly hard to avoid getting a measles infection as a child where measles is endemic (measles R nought being somewhere in the teens).
Interesting data fact. 20% of Irishmen weren’t born in Ireland
BiND has it right. You can’t trust any story where infection or vaccine is involved because the slant has to match the narrative. All vaccines are wonderful and if there is an outbreak it’s your fault.
BiS
That’s just the rugby team. The footer squad is a lot higher.
True Otto. But that’s the immigration figure.
And OT but also in Forrin’:
https://euroweeklynews.com/2024/02/07/eu-demands-probe-into-catalan-russian-links/?utm_source=auto-newsletter-721&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=AutoNewsAlert
Remind me. Where else was investigation of supposed Russian links a remedy for inconveniently popular politicians?
BiFR
Does the vaccine confer immunity for life or do we now have hundreds of millions of people walking around who were spared infant infection but at increasing risk of very much to be avoided adult infection?
That’s interesting. Is the data not yet there on that one (I had thought it was)? As in – no, unlike childhood infection, it doesn’t necessarily (generally) confer immunity for life? Have I got that wrong; is there still ambiguity on that? Or is it simply the scale (quantitative effect) that’s not yet certain?
BiS, you’re forgetting the Irish American population (31.5 million at the last census).
Assuming none were born in the US (likely), and excluding the rest of the Irish diaspora, then only around 11% of Irishmen were born in Ireland.
Interestingly, the number of Irish Americans is declining sharply, from over 40 million in the 90s, to 31.5 now.
PF,
Vaccines change the ecological landscape. Take Noel’s point first. If he grew up as one of the few unvaccinated and didn’t get infected because there were no outbreaks because of widespread vaccination, he’s been spared childhood infection. That childhood infection that didn’t happen because of widespread vaccination would on balance have been a better outcome than death by adult infection.
Alternatively he was unvaccinated, grew up when vaccination was not widespread, and managed to avoid infection as a child. In that case either vaccination or infection as a child would have been a better outcome than death by adult infection.
Then there is the possibility that he is vaccinated but the vaccine was not effective, or is no longer effective. There isn’t any reason to think this is the case, but to know if this is a widespread issue we will need to wait for some decades after “maximum vaccination”.
I don’t know when measles vaccines became routine and can only find triumphant trumpeting on the web that one was invented in 1963. I am sure it was not in widespread use in the UK before about 1985, and probably never as an isolated vaccine rather than MMR. We have some GPs here, don’t we, who may recall?
Incidentally the last thing my ex-GP tried to get me to do, at the height of the recent vaccine mania, was to take MMR. Saying I’d had both of the Ms as an infant, and R was moot as I am not intending on getting pregnant any time soon didn’t go down well.
Lack of Viagra?
The senility of the “Irishman” at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave would seem to indicate so.
Incidentally, we’ve reached the point where measles vaccination is so widespread that not getting it as a kid is a seriously bad idea (as this case may illustrate).
Whether that is a good place to be is worth some cogitation, especially as there is no prospect of eliminating measles globally.
For those few remaining medics who still believe in the patient’s right to refuse treatment, and did not abandon that principle in 2021, this is probably an insoluble ethical problem.
BiFR
That’s interesting, thanks ….
Yup. I’ve never had measles or mumps and have no knowledge of being vaccinated against either. But the kid was vaccinated with MMR which is the usual way these things enter the household.
If I’d been offered a standalone measles shot or even MMR 10 years ago, I’d probably have taken it up, but after the whole COVID thing and their “mystery meat” mRNA stuff, I’d almost certainly give it a pass.
The trust is gone, you see, and once gone is very hard to restore.
So, instead, I stay well away from kids (since they seem to be the breading ground for Measles and Mumps) and take my chances with herd immunity…that same herd immunity that was a big deal 10 years ago and is now verbotten for discussion.
I blame the government.
BiFR,
Make of this source what you will:
“ The MMR vaccine was introduced in the UK in 1988. If you were born before that, you may have received the measles vaccine, which was introduced in the UK in 1968.
People born in the UK before 1970 are likely to have had a measles infection and are less likely to be at risk. The MMR vaccine can be given on request or if they’re at high risk of exposure.”
https://www.nhsinform.scot/campaigns/mmr-against-measles/
This gives same dates, but could well have relied on the same source..
https://peopleshistorynhs.org/encyclopaedia/childhood-vaccination-and-the-nhs/
It just so happens my wife had been looking it up after I told her about your comments.
Thanks BiND. I was born after 1970, parents are not anti vaxxers (I have in memory school-administered polio and BCG vaccines) but I know I had both M infections as a sprog. No vaccines for either, and not R because that wuz fer girls.
PF, it’s worth looking up Marek’s disease for the conundrums created by widespread but not universal vaccination against pathogens of low impact. Whether M and M, with lethality comparable to influenza, and previously considered universal acceptable childhood infections are low impact is an exercise left to the reader.
BiFR
Yes, I remember reading about that through the early Covid vaccine stage. It was Vanden Bossche’s (potential) concern at the time, vaccinating into the face of a pandemic and what might be the possible drivers on the virus. With chickens, the time duration is massively accelerated compared to humans. In addition, measles doesn’t ordinarily mutate at anything like the same rate as flu and similar, which presumably is also a factor. Yes, thanks, I’ll follow it up again, it’s a while since I read about it and I can forget things easily…
BiFR,
We were also interested because our son was born in Cyprus in ’86 and was given measles. When we got back in ’88 they wanted to give him MMR and my wife quite naturally asked what would happen as he’d already had measles. Apart from being dismissed as a silly little woman when she pushed it nobody knew but they weren’t prepared to give him mumps separately.
BiND, that is because increasingly these shots are not available independently. Vaccines are the Cinderella of clinical development despite all the Bill Gates love, because we have so remarkably few. And the good ones work well against genuinely nasty infections.
All the development of late has focused on multivalency, sticking multiple vaccines into one shot, and sensible ideas of recombinant antigen. I have grave reservations about the push to move all of this to mRNA, following the “success” of the Covid vaccines, turning the body into its own enemy with a drug you have no remote prospect of dosing the end product of.