Vladimir Putin said Russia had arrested all four gunmen responsible for the shooting that killed 133 people at a concert hall on the outskirts of Moscow, claiming that the perpetrators of one of the worst terror attacks in the country’s history planned to flee to Ukraine.
In his first public comments on the terrorist attacks that shocked the nation, the Russian president made no mention of Islamic State’s claim to have carried out the attack.
Instead, Putin suggested without evidence that Ukraine may have been involved in Friday’s attack at the Crocus City Hall just outside Moscow, saying that “the Ukrainian side” had “prepared a window” for the terrorists to cross the border from Russia into Ukraine before they were apprehended.
“They tried to hide and move towards Ukraine, where, according to preliminary data, a window was prepared for them from the Ukrainian side to cross the state border,” Putin said in a televised address.
A “window” eh? Someone sut the wire in preparation for them being able to get through?
Imagine – no, just go on – imagine that the FSB had that level of data. Then why didn’t they have the data about their coming the other way?
Tractor statistics stuff.
I have to agree with you Tim. I’d call Putin’s claim bullshit.
However I was pleased to read that the security forces cut off one of the gunmen’s ears. It sounds as though the Russians’ll really conduct an all-out interrogation.
They were going to escape in bulet shaped capsules that ran inside the gas pipeline.
Cut off an ear, Boganboy? Wow! I look forward to seeing his claim for compensation to the Russian equivalent of the IOPC!
This is just a repeat of the 1999 Russian Apartment bombings which help Putin go from Prime Minister to President a few months later.
Sure, the targets changed to Kiev, but the play is pretty much identical. No doubt the “4 Muslim Gunmen” hired for £8,600 were in fact duped by an FSB/GRU agent.
I don’t believe a word of it.
The only purpose here is to enable the Putin regime to switch (almost seamlessly) from the Ukraine “special operation” to outright war along with the necessary military mobilisation that requires.
Hopefully they’ll slowly work down to trimming his toenails. From the fleshy side.
However I was pleased to read that the security forces cut off one of the gunmen’s ears
Good. I hope our ineffectual plod are taking notes. They could learn a thing or two.
Is this completely different because reasons from the Hamastinians being able to raid into Israel & retreat to Gaza ( helped by the Obama agents of Paragon – see Patrick Byrne)?
Also they seem to have been arrested near Bryansk, which is on the road to Belarus rather than Ukraine, and to have used vehicles with Belarussian plates
Americans had been warned to avoid concert venues in Moscow for several days beforehand.
Coincidences eh?
On March 7 US Embassy Moscow issued the following alert:
The Embassy is monitoring reports that extremists have imminent plans to target large gatherings in Moscow, to include concerts, and U.S. citizens should be advised to avoid large gatherings over the next 48 hours.
https://ru.usembassy.gov/security-alert-avoid-large-gatherings-over-the-next-48-hours/
JG – Vladimir Putin already won re-election and is already winning his war in Ukraine, and is already ahead of Russia’s mobilisation goals.
What do you think he’s going to do now, war harder? Mobilise harder? I don’t think so.
On t’other, as Tim the Coder notes, the American Embassy warned about a major terrorist attack in Russia only a few days ago. The CIA has admitted to building 12 bases in Ukraine, on the border with Russia. Those bases are for exactly this kind of thing.
Victoria Nuland promised “surprises” for Russia shortly before her ouster.
the Russian president made no mention of Islamic State’s claim to have carried out the attack.
ISIS is a CIA creation. If that’s not true, why does ISIS never attack the US or Israel?
This was most likely a CIA operation in partnership with the Ukrainian SBU. They’re unable to win the war in Ukraine, but they are able to do acts of terrorism such as blow up Nord Stream, attack markets in Belgorod, and now this.
The obvious purpose of such attacks is to raise the cost of war for Russia, hopefully create some domestic dissent, and perhaps provoke Russia into doing something stupid enough that might lead to directly fighting NATO. Ukraine has nothing to lose at this point, and the CIA never had anything to lose because it’s other people’s lives and money they’re spending.
If that’s so Steve, why did the US open its mouth about a potential attack?
To point the Russkies away from Ukraine???
Bboy – Possibly because they didn’t want American citizens dying in the attack. That would complicate the narrative.
It occurs to me that blaming the Russian government for a terrorist attack on Russian citizens in Moscow is exactly the same as Gaza Truthers who blame the October 7th attacks on the Jews.
Eh, no, we can probably rule out the victims as having done this, because that makes considerably less sense than the more obvious explanation that their enemies did it.
” the American Embassy warned about a major terrorist attack in Russia only a few days ago.”
Before this one gets too out of hand. The warning was March 7, and covered the next 48 hours from then. Just, you know, pendantry.
Tim – Before this one gets too out of hand. The warning was March 7, and covered the next 48 hours from then. Just, you know, pendantry.
Yes? You’re not suspicious about that at all? Public sector timescales have been known to be unreliable before, especially when you’re subcontracting to some retards from Tajikistan.
I’m not Lieutenant Columbo or nothing, but the government that has means, motive, opportunity and a track record of doing Exactly This Sort of Thing warned Exactly This Sort of Thing would happen, only a fortnight before Exactly This Sort of Thing happened.
This glows harder than Chernobyl.
It was, of course, the Rothschilds, King Charles, The Pope; or the FSB, Mossad, ISIS, CIA, MI6, the Ukrainians, M Micron, … Who have I omitted?
Why on earth would I believe a single word said on this subject by any of those parties?
ISIS is a CIA creation. If that’s not true, why does ISIS never attack the US or Israel?
Just possibly the clue is contained in the name of the organisation. Islamic State It’s aims are to create a contiguous caliphate across several muslim nations in the region. Some of which currently come under Russian influence. It has regional ambitions not global. As for Israel, no doubt it’s currently content with it’s conflict with Hezbollah in Syria & Iraq without widening its ambitions.
Your bank transfer from Putler was successful again this month, Steve?
ISIS/Daesh, a bit like the Mujaheddin/Taliban, is indeed a monster of the US’s creation that went out of control. They won’t attack Israel because they can’t. I doubt very much that Hezbollah will tolerate them in Lebanon nor Hamas in Gaza. Their operatives are likely to be eliminated in Egypt and Jordan well before they reach any border crossing.
It is a sad state of affairs that I have become so cynical, that I am quite prepared to believe that this was a FSB false flag operation.
bloke in spain – I think a bigger clue is in how ISIS appeared out of nowhere, armed to the teeth with American weaponry, to attack America’s enemies in the ME and NA, such as the governments of Syria, Iran and Libya.
Man, those are some useful jihadis.
Your bank transfer from Putler was successful again this month, Steve?
I’m not the one promoting a conspiracy theory that the Russian government gunned down a bunch of Russians in Russia for reasons. Clearly, I must therefore be on the take, somehow.
“Are you sure that randomly murdering 133 of my subjects in a concert hall will make me more popular, Yevgeny?” – Vladimir Putin, apparently
OT but related: One thing I found suspicious was that during lockdowns there were no terrorist outrages. I found it weird that all the Islamic nutters just collectively decided to take some time off. Almost as if they’d be told by someone to knock it off……but I guess thats a bit too tinfoil.
The CIA has long had listening posts in the ‘stans, which is where they picked up the chatter, probably.
Their APB to expat yanks would have been picked up by Russian security. Who may be a little bit incompetent.
So no, this is just what it says on the tin. A Muslim atrocity, like Bataclan, Manchester, etc.
Phew, doolally Steve is back. It’s been a while.
@Steve – come on mate, this is tinfoil hat stuff.
If it was Ukraine/CIA, why would the Yanks put out a warning? It wasn’t a secret warning that only American ears could hear.
And since when was ISIS a CIA front organisation!? What was the CIA’s aim in creating a militant Islamic organisation to fight against American forces in Iraq?
Unless I hear anything convincing to the contrary, I am prepared to accept the straightforward explanation that it’s murderous Islamic nut jobs doing murderous Islamic nut job stuff.
@Jim
The clue is probably in the word lockdown A trifle pointless to make efforts to organise attacks aimed at loss of life if there are no big gatherings of people.
It was, of course, the Rothschilds, King Charles, The Pope; or the FSB, Mossad, ISIS, CIA, MI6, the Ukrainians, M Micron, … Who have I omitted?
Just as well Kate opened up about her cancer otherwise she’d have been accused of being part of the team given the wierdo conspiracies that come in to being.
One thing I found suspicious was that during lockdowns there were no terrorist outrages.
No. Entirely logical. The quarantine measures were indistinguishable from a security clampdown. It wasn’t an environment one would want to be covertly operating in. Plus the absence of targets.
There was much the same with the illegal drugs trade here. Initially street prices fell because buyers were unable to get together with sellers & sellers needed to turn stock into cash to be able to eat. That was followed by a famine & point of sale price rises because of the risk attached to moving product from the entry points to the market. Police traffic monitoring & paucity of road movements as cover. Meanwhile at the entry end, time lag meant that stock was building up from importation. Wholesale price fell because sellers couldn’t find buyers. No conspiracy theories required whatsoever.
Not saying I go much on conspiracy theories in the first place. Mostly advanced by tossers like Steve. I know far too much about human nature. All these supposed conspiracies require 100% loyalty to the cause by everyone concerned. Good luck with that. Just look at “CIA behind Moscow terrorist attack”. Just how many people would have to be in the limited need-to-know loops to progress that? Maybe they wouldn’t be aware of what rôle they were unconsciously playing before it went off. But they’ll soon join the dots after. Those guys would have needed couriering, safehousing, armouring & an escape route set up. That’s a lot of people involved. And the CIA could set up a leakproof arms length operation to progress it? Do me a favour. Whoever did it is a small self-contained group of fanatics loyal to a cause. So I’d rule out both CIA & FSB as having any direct involvement
John Galt has it right: false flag operation by Putin, to provide cover for some sort of escalation in or about Ukraine.
Like all of us, I don’t know who did this. One of the great tragedies of the last few years is that we can no longer trust our own governments or media on anything, even huge things like this (actually I was just ferociously naive and we never could, but still).
But @Marius ‘If it was Ukraine/CIA, why would the Yanks put out a warning?’, maybe so that people would say ‘If it was Ukraine/CIA, why would the Yanks put out a warning?‘
@Peter Macfarlane
‘John Galt has it right’
John Galt knows precisely as much about it as any of us does ie nothing.
false flag operation by Putin, to provide cover for some sort of escalation in or about Ukraine.
Just think about that for a moment. How many people would have to be in need-to-know loops to mount a thing like that. Let’s start with neutralising security at the venue so the tooled up point team don’t get intercepted on their way in. Most of these people don’t have to know what the aim of what they’ve been told to do. But they’re certainly going to be putting 2 & 2 together after. How many would be alongside the result? Nobody would talk? Back to the point team. What’s their motivation? How are they convinced there’s an extraction plan for them? That they aren’t going to conveniently removed from the equation by a “fortunate” security response with kill not capture orders. How will the security responders feel about those orders after event?
I’m quite willing to believe that the “captured gunmen” mightn’t be kosher. There’d be a far more limited need-to-know & would give Putin failure damage limitation. Why would anyone attempt an exfiltration though one of the most heavily policed areas in Russia when there’s thousands of miles of porous frontiers available? Why exfiltrate at all, rather than go to ground in a previously arranged location?
I wonder why people fall for all this shit? Too much exposure to Hollywood plot lines? Do you never wonder what would be the motivation for the Evil Whatever’s goons to stand up & be shot down by James Bond in the big action scene in reel three? Why not just say “Fuck this for a game of skittles, I’m out of here”
@Interested – I might know nothing, but I can tell a false flag when it’s waved.
This is manufactured bullshit.
Marius – @Steve – come on mate, this is tinfoil hat stuff.
More tinfoil hat, less tinfoil hat, or about the same tinfoil hat as accusing the Russians of doing a terrorism on themselves?
We’ve already established a conspiracy took place (some men conspired to commit an act of terrorism). The only question is whose conspiracy it was.
There is more than one party that would be keen on formenting internal racial/religious strife in Russia right now. None are the United Russia party.
If it was Ukraine/CIA, why would the Yanks put out a warning? It wasn’t a secret warning that only American ears could hear.
Why wouldn’t they? See above.
And since when was ISIS a CIA front organisation!?
My guess is probably since the start.
What was the CIA’s aim in creating a militant Islamic organisation to fight against American forces in Iraq?
Are you, um, aware of the history of the CIA? And the American government’s (to talk of something as vast and sprawling as “the American government” as if it were a single coherent entity is in itself an unspoken assumption) bizzare tangle of conflicting alliances and clients in the Middle East? Simultaneously sworn buddies of sworn blood enemies, a Byzantine knot of backstabbing insincerity, punctuated by the rat-a-tat of regular drone strikes from dozens of bases covering the region to maintain US hegemony?
My friend, this wouldn’t even be the third time the CIA has knowingly armed Muslim extremists.
But it’s not as if the US was “fighting” ISIS. The US was the advance guard for ISIS, when it wasn’t “accidentally” airdropping them supplies. ISIS flowed into the territory the US allowed it to take, after US forces had sufficiently weakened or destroyed the local secular government. It was Syria and Russia, Iraq and Iran who fought ISIS.
Did you never wonder at how dangerous ISIS appeared to be when President Obama was in office, and how quickly they melted away during the Trump term?
Anyway, back on topic: this operation smells like SBU fuckery to me, and would’ve had CIA blessing at a minimum, active cooperation if required. But I think it’s well within Ukrainian Smiley’s people’s capability to find some willing retards from central Asia, wind them up, and set them off.
The borders of Ukraine, Russia and Belarus are necessarily porous to small team infiltration because of the long distances and the fact that they all look like each other and speak the same language. Ukraine likely has several active cells in Moscow alone. Budanov is exactly the sort of smirking cunt who would plan this.
Unless I hear anything convincing to the contrary, I am prepared to accept the straightforward explanation that it’s murderous Islamic nut jobs doing murderous Islamic nut job stuff.
The Russian government seems unconvinced, and obviously so am I. Obvs, I have no proof, but if you believe Ukraine or the US government are above this sort of thing, I wish I was as wholesomely trusting as you are.
Snag – Phew, doolally Steve is back. It’s been a while.
I’ve always been mental tho. But it’s legitimately difficult to separate my own anxiety and paranoia from “the news”. The thing is, to be aware of what’s happening can cause negative mental health experiences, these days.
Crazy horses.
Like I’ve said before, Steve, our UK suburban correspondent.
Mark Galeotti just nicely rules out a false flag operation in this morning’s podcast.
I’ think I’ll go with his take, him being an expert on these things, until someone can make a decent case why Putin would do it put forward by someone with equal bona fides as it puts a huge hole in his protector of the people image.
https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/in-moscows-shadows-140-terror-and-totalitarianism/id1510124746?i=1000650252082
Interested – But @Marius ‘If it was Ukraine/CIA, why would the Yanks put out a warning?’, maybe so that people would say ‘If it was Ukraine/CIA, why would the Yanks put out a warning?‘
Yes, there’s a long list of good reasons why and how you’d put out a warning:
* You don’t want your fellow Americans to die (crazy, I know, but it’s possible some CIA spooks have a conscience and/or Ukraine didn’t want potential blowback)
* Plausible deniability (hey we were just passing on intel chatter like a responsible gov, nowt to do with us)
* The person at the American embassy responsible for putting out the warning would have sincerely believed the warning at face value, they wouldn’t be compromised by being in the loop.
*A warning that’s vague enough to make Americans cancel their social plans but also vague enough to be useless to the Russian government doesn’t harm American interests
What makes this one seem fishy to me is they didn’t act like typical jihadis. This seemed very methodical, not 72 virgins crazed Ahmeds running about Allahu Akhbarring as you’d normally see.
Unfortunately I don’t think we can rely on anything we hear about it from here on out, barring an unlikely US/Ukr whistleblower. If the Russians are willing to torture the survivors, they can make them “confess” to anything. But I reckon this is just the start of an uptick in terrorism on Russian soil either way.
Putin feels that time is on his side in Ukraine. Perhaps domestic terrorism, coupled with strikes to his refining capacity, will convince him otherwise. Perhaps that’s the plan.
Why didn’t they do it before Putin’s election rather than after?
I staying neutral until I read what the Daily Sceptic has to say, and will then go contra that.
Just hoping that mother Russia does not go all in with its bombers on Ukraine civilian targets, as the reaction from the West will lead to horrors.
BiS – No conspiracy theories required whatsoever.
Not saying I go much on conspiracy theories in the first place. Mostly advanced by tossers like Steve.
I wasn’t ignoring you on purpose, I was just trying to think of something constructive to say.
Conspiracy theories. Is it a conspiracy theory if you’re describing the activities of organisations set up to engage in conspiratorial (i.e. clandestine) behaviour?
If you think the CIA, and its 13 secret bases on Ukraine’s frontier with Russia, are not for the purposes of mischief, what purposes do you think they serve? Surprise parties?
Aren’t conspiracies against Russia the CIA’s job?
A lot of the world’s history has hinged on conspiracies, see: Operation Mincemeat. I’m starting to think there’s a conspiracy to give conspiracy theories a bad reputation, because they’re very often correct.
If you think the CIA, and its 13 secret bases on Ukraine’s frontier with Russia
I haven’t the slightest idea what you’re talking about. Pre 2014 or after? Bases as in large areas territory with extensive CIA personnel or listening posts? I wouldn’t be the least surprised at the latter. Cooperation by the security services of two nations with common interests no doubt agreed at government level. I’ve no doubt the CIA had similar arrangements in pre-NATO Finland & has now. Covert is not the same as conspiracy.
Trouble with actual conspiracies is they rarely remain the sole province of the conspirators. It’s an old story. One person can keep a secret. Two at a push. Once you get to three you might as well tell the world. Your secret will be someone’s interesting topic of conversation down the pub.
A CIA conspiracy? What could the US possibly gain? Downside? It ever came out, congressional hearings & the entire top levels of the CIA lose their jobs. Not to mention world opprobrium for the US.
A Ukrainian conspiracy? What could Ukraine gain? A bit more shit on Putin’s plate. Maybe some diversion of military resources from the current conflict. Downside if it got out? Excuse for Putin to widen the scope of his war without foreign repercussions. Importantly. The most opposition to Putin’s military adventure is coming from the educated Russians in Russian cities & Russians who have contact with Russians in the West. I know a lot of these sort of Russians. There’s not one has spoken in favour of the war. It’s not good for them. It’s not good for their people back home. It’s their tax rises paying for it. Their standard of living falling. Their people being conscripted. Why would Ukraine target what got hit? It was a direct attack on those sort of Russians. If it’d been a Ukraine drone or missile, they could accept hit it in error, they would have swallowed it. It’d have been the consequence of Putin’s warmongering. But a Ukrainian sponsored terrorist attack would put the whole lot of them behind him. Why would the Ukrainians risk that for so little gain?
Steve. Did you even know Ukraine existed before it turned up on TV in ’14? I doubt it. You seem to have no understanding of Eastern European history or Eastern Europeans.
“A CIA conspiracy? What could the US possibly gain? Downside? It ever came out, congressional hearings & the entire top levels of the CIA lose their jobs. Not to mention world opprobrium for the US.”
Really? Have you not been watching the last 20 years or so? The idea that the US Deep State is worried about Congressional Hearings is about 70 years out of date. Hell, even two bit chancers like Hunter Biden can stick two fingers up at a Congressional Hearing and nothing happens to him. We all know the CIA have been up to all manner of treasonous sh*t, framing a sitting President as a ‘Russian asset’ for one, and does anyone care? Of course not because the same people control everything in the US. They don’t need a conspiracy to do whatever they want in Ukraine, they’ll just do it, and if anyone points it out they’ll deny all knowledge, and the whistleblower will denounced as a right wing loon by all the media, and then mysteriously commit suicide.
– Your bank transfer from Putler was successful again this month, Steve?
Not even the Russians are daft enough to pay for what they can get for free.
I ascribe this nuttiness to lockdown dementia (as in the old fashioned overall use – demented). Some people were so badly affected by the behaviour of governments, and the lack of punishment for those involved, that it actually damaged their capacity to reason. Everything – past, present and future – is now seen in the context of “our” governments behaving badly. Anything that stands against “our” governments, by being the enemy of the enemy, is in some way friendly. The Canadian right is a good example; their government was particularly evil to them and so they are really mentalist; straight up “please-come-and-rescue-us, Vlad” mentalist.
The more you get into loony tunes the more difficult it is to get out; it’s easier to double down than to admit that you’ve been a fucking prat for a couple of years.
– I haven’t the slightest idea what you’re talking about.
This is the source of what he’s talking about:
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/25/world/europe/cia-ukraine-intelligence-russia-war.html
Which is quite funny, since the article will certainly have been pre-approved by the CIA if not ghost written by them. The loons are believing stories about the CIA written by the CIA.
Steve has added an extra secret base to the official secret base total. Feverish typing will do that.
Jim. The US Deep State is as much of a conspiracy theory as the British Establishment.
In reality, these people work for their own personal advantage. It’s that their interests temporarily coincide, they give impression of working together. Behind the apparently united front they’re scheming as much against each other as anyone else. And it has always been that way.
Oh dear, how sad, never mind -https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13233511/Russian-forces-torturing-Moscow-terror-suspect-hooking-genitals-battery.html
Steve. Did you even know Ukraine existed before it turned up on TV in ’14? I doubt it. You seem to have no understanding of Eastern European history or Eastern Europeans.
TBF to the extent most of us knew anything about the history of the region prior to Russia’s war of aggression it was based on the teachings of White Russian emigres who also believed in greater Russia.
Since then more reliable information has been available, its just some people seem incapable of updating their priors.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLh9mgdi4rNewfxO7LhBoz_1Mx1MaO6sw_
TLDW: Ukraine has always been part of Russia, except for the 500+ years when it wasn’t,
Oh dear, how sad, never mind -https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13233511/Russian-forces-torturing-Moscow-terror-suspect-hooking-genitals-battery.html
Evidence be damned.
The thinking behind releasing this information this could be based on a probably apocryphal story from the time of the Beirut hostage taking in the early ’80s and meant as a deterrent.
After a Russian citizen had been kidnapped the KGB hunted down the kidnappers and sent their bodies, with their testicles stuffed in to their mouths, back to the group that carried out the kidnapping . Result: No more Russians were kidnapped.
PJF – Yes, the lockdowns were instructive, and so too have been the things that followed.
The more you get into loony tunes the more difficult it is to get out; it’s easier to double down than to admit that you’ve been a fucking prat for a couple of years.
What’s crazy is continuing to believe these people, after they’ve made a fool of you before. You seem to think it makes you worldly wise to keep believing proven liars. Curious.
Which is quite funny, since the article will certainly have been pre-approved by the CIA if not ghost written by them. The loons are believing stories about the CIA written by the CIA.
Yes? So you’ve talked yourself into believing it’s lunacy to believe anything the CIA tells you about its activities, because you are so smart. You simultaneously think this is a reason to trust the CIA, apparently.
No, I’m not following your logic either.
Steve has added an extra secret base to the official secret base total. Feverish typing will do that.
My mistake, they “only” admitted to 12 secret bases in Ukraine. Clearly that makes all the difference in the world. The thirteenth would’ve been crazy, right?
BiS – Steve. Did you even know Ukraine existed before it turned up on TV in ’14? I doubt it. You seem to have no understanding of Eastern European history or Eastern Europeans.
I’m bored of answering this question, since you never remember the answer, or perhaps prefer to just not believe it.
“The US Deep State is as much of a conspiracy theory as the British Establishment.
In reality, these people work for their own personal advantage. It’s that their interests temporarily coincide, they give impression of working together. Behind the apparently united front they’re scheming as much against each other as anyone else. And it has always been that way.”
Your ‘personal advantage’ idea does not preclude those in power of being all of the same ideological bent and working towards the same goals. The German State from 1933 to 1945 was full of people who would undoubtedly have fought like rats in a sack to be the Minister in charge of paperclips, but we all know those in power all held the same views, and were working towards certain ideological aims.
The same applies the State Apparatus in most Western countries – 100% of those in positions of power (and indeed the vast majority of those at a more ‘shop floor’ level) are of the same ideological bent. Yes they may all be fighting among each other to be the Head of Dept or whatever, but when they aren’t fighting each other they are pushing policy and decision making in one direction only. Just as a shoal of fish consists of thousands (millions?) of individual small fishes they still end up moving as one.
“Everything – past, present and future – is now seen in the context of “our” governments behaving badly. Anything that stands against “our” governments, by being the enemy of the enemy, is in some way friendly.”
Nope, I just don’t believe a word our government class say any more. When they say ‘Putin is our enemy’ I say ‘Really? He’s done nothing to me, but you have turned my country into a shell of its former self, so maybe I won’t believe you’.
I don’t see Putin as friendly, I see our government (and all Western governments) as bad as he is. And when I see 2 evil people fighting I wish them both to die.
Jim – same.
I don’t think I’ve ever said a good word about Putin, but apparently I’m on his payroll for not believing obvious lies my own government tells me.
Even as the official narrative on Ukraine changes over time like the official story on Covid did. You’re supposed to keep up with the new lies, or you’ll look foolish apparently.
People who had convinced themselves the Ghost of Kiev was doing wheelies in the sky after shooting down half the Russian air force while the Russian army ran out of artillery, missiles and men now want you to believe you’re a lunatic for doubting today’s official story.
Weird.
@bind “evidence be damned” – the animals provided the evidence themselves by videoing the whole thing and taking selfies whilst doing it.
BIND
“Mark Galeotti just nicely rules out a false flag operation in this morning’s podcast.
I think I’ll go with his take, him being an expert on these things”
Would that be the Mark Galeotti who, in September 2022 asserted that the most credible culprit responsible for the sabotage of the Nord Stream pipelines was Russia…
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-nord-stream-blasts-are-putin-s-warning-shot-to-the-west/
before, in March 2023, “holding up his hands” to accept that, just maybe, Ukraine had something to do with it…
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/did-the-ukrainians-bomb-the-nord-stream-pipeline/?
Credit to him for admitting his original error but to jump to such an extraordinary conclusion so quickly seems to show instinctive bias rather than reasoned, dispassionate analysis. Whereas in that case he seems to have immediately assumed that Russia had “shot itself in the head” to set up an extraordinarily self-damaging “false flag”, now he seems to have jumped to the opposite extreme and concluded that Russia couldn’t possibly have had any involvement in the latest attack. I don’t think he’s necessarily wrong in that conclusion – quite likely right – just that he may be prone to getting his opinion in first rather that doing the tedious work involved in checking its veracity or even, in the case of Nord Stream, credibility.
Incidentally, just as the US seems to have warned about the recent attack, I seem to remember that Biden “forecast” that something unfortunate might happen to NS and lo, it came to pass…
“I just don’t believe a word our government class say any more.”
This, in spades. And I guess more fool me for being so naive. Obviously add media to that too (at least the main stream). They’re mostly paid for/controlled.
“The US Deep State is as much of a conspiracy theory as the British Establishment.
In reality, these people work for their own personal advantage.
One person can keep a secret. Two at a push. Once you get to three you might as well tell the world.”
As much as I follow the logic of personal advantage, isn’t it more nuanced? Secret clubs and groups (purely as an example)?
Who still believes (with whatever conflicting evidence is available) that Lee Harvey Oswald killed JFK?. Because, if he didn’t, that would have been a quite substantial number of people involved?
I just don’t believe a word our government class say any more. When they say ‘Putin is our enemy’ I say ‘Really? He’s done nothing to me, but you have turned my country into a shell of its former self, so maybe I won’t believe you’.
“I knew no harm of Bonaparte and plenty of the Squire”
The Rolling English Road – G. K. Chesterton
Those pesky Wussian tractor drivers are awfully thorough sometimes – they laid the groundwork conspiracy tinfoil hat stuff for this 2 years ago.
2022 report in Arabic publication:
”
“Dozens of extremist fighters have made their way from Syria’s northern Idlib governorate to Ukraine to fight against Russian troops, according to a report by Sputnik Arabic.
At least 87 former members of ISIS were allegedly transferred to the Syrian-Turkish border on 26 March under the direct supervision of the leader of the Hayat Tahrir al-Sham (HTS) armed group, Abu Mohammad al-Julani.
The report indicates that most of the fighters are Iraqi, Chechen, Tunisian, and French nationalities.
On 8 March, 450 HTS militants arrived in Ukraine to join the fight against the Russian army.
According to the family members of the militants, high-ranking HTS leaders have been coordinating with senior leaders of the Turkistan Islamic Party group, Ansar al-Tawhid, and Hurras al-Din groups, to facilitate the passage of the extremists from Idlib to Turkey and then on to Ukraine.
Since early March, the foreign intelligence service of Russia (SVR RF) has issued warnings that the US and NATO are providing ISIS fighters from Syria with special training at the US army’s Al-Tanf military base in Syria, and then sending them to Ukraine.”
https://thecradle.co/articles-id/4420
We now seem to have got rid of all Steve’s conspiracy theories because his hero, Putler, is now saying it was the ragheads after all. Unless he’s now going to propose that him saying it was proves it wasn’t.