A senior coroner has condemned the “inhumane” and “indefensible” treatment of a man who killed himself 17 years into an indefinite prison sentence. Tom Osborne, the senior coroner for Milton Keynes, said Scott Rider had given up all hope of release before he took his own life at HMP Woodhill in June 2022.
He had been serving an imprisonment for public protection (IPP) sentence after being convicted of grievous bodily harm in 2005. The sentence had a minimum term of 23 months but no end date.
Days before he died, Rider told a prison worker that he had lost hope he would ever be freed. He said it was “disgusting” that he was still locked up, that his crime had not warranted a never-ending punishment, and that the IPP sentence had ruined his life. “He did things wrong and he deserved to be punished but he didn’t deserve that,” his sister, Michelle Mahon, said.
I recall complaining about such setnences back then. Found guilty of something by a jury? Here’s your sentence then. But a determined sentence, one known and published.
Anything else is totalitarian.
Typical Guardian: ’Many of those on IPPs were convicted for low-level crimes such as theft…’
This was GBH!
I think for once the Graun is making a fair point Julia
Yes this was GBH – but locking a man up and throwing away the key? And for theft too?
The state has awesome power and it should use it in a predictable and even handed way.
He was an incorrigible recidivist, Interested. It wasn’t just theft.
Nice to see that for once, the parole board decided not to inflict him on society.
Indefinite sentences?
Pfft.
That’s nothing.
In Japan, until 2007, inmates weren’t told when their execution would be until the last minute.
After that, possibly because its a bit harsh, they now tell the to-be-executed on the morning of their execution. Family, legal rep and the public are notified after the event.
Meanwhile, from the article about this chap who we’re supposed to feel sorry for…
In 2003, Rider was jailed for assaulting their father. He was later released and, Mahon says, went on to clean his life up and find a girlfriend. But in 2005, while still on licence for the earlier offence, he was arrested again after assaulting a colleague and given an IPP sentence with a minimum tariff of 23 months.
“I do not condone what Scott has done. In 17 years, he committed 47 offences and was convicted of 22.
My, what a stand up chap.
And it is possible to get out, as long as you show you’re not a danger to anyone.
Over his 17-and-a-half years behind bars, Rider transferred between prisons repeatedly; was abusive to staff; and had appeared depressed. In 2018, he was convicted of racially aggravated harassment of a prison officer.
Oh. Sounds like a real charmer…
He refused to engage with the parole process. By the time of his death in June 2022, he had been self-isolating in his cell for 200 days and had stopped showering.
So he refused to engage. Maybe he politely told them about his situation and how he didn’t see the point in partaking in their process…
“How can they justify rejecting parole just because on the day he’s supposed to meet the parole board he’s woken up in a bad mood and told them to eff off? That to me cries mental health… so why should he be kept in prison for that?”
Oh, right. Yes, the key to convincing people to let you out and that you’re not a danger to others is to verbally abuse them. FFS. It doesn’t cry mental health to me. It seems like he was a bit of a shitlord.
Further in the article…
The MoJ has so far resisted calls to review the cases of existing IPP prisoners. It said 185 IPP prisoners had been released in the year to March 2024 and that numbers had reduced by three-quarters since the sentences were scrapped in 2012.
So it is possible to get out if you’re not a dangerous loon.
Also
But a spokesperson said that retrospectively changing sentences posed a risk to public safety because it meant people who the parole board had deemed unsafe for release, “many of whom have committed serious violent or sexual offences, would leave prison without probation supervision and support”.
What’s this? The instruments of the state actually trying to keep us safe?
Its a good job I’m sat down.
While I’m not a fan of the state using excessive powers, I can’t really cry a river because some bad ‘uns get squished,
He was depressed because he saw no way out?
Did he even consider, you know, showing contrition, being a model prisoner, engaging with the parole board, being polite?
Well said, CD. A scumbag and no loss.
May God have mercy on his soul.
In May 2022 he told a prison worker that he felt Woodhill prison was “despicable” and that he was “going insane”. He refused to engage with the parole process. By the time of his death in June 2022, he had been self-isolating in his cell for 200 days and had stopped showering. The inquest into Rider’s death heard it was common for IPP prisoners to display “challenging behaviours” and that they often felt “trapped”.
Undiagnosed mental health issues are an obvious factor here. You can see his spiral of depression and despair in that one paragraph. Why was a man who expressed fear for his sanity allowed to self isolate in his cell for 200 days?
Agree with Tim this is /was a bad ide. But “the prevention of future deaths” report by the coroner- This is activism. Might be a reasonable view, but its public policy, law of the land, i’d rather the coroners stayed out of it. He topped himself would suffice. Leave it to the activist journos, they’re all too happy not to even mention the professionals didn’t have confidence he wouldn’t do something similar or worse. The whole idea is prevention of future harm.
HB – prisons have a duty of care to their prisoners, as well as to the general public.
We pay the clavigers to keep the outlaws safely locked up, and alive. They failed this man, no doubt partly because he was a troublesome prisoner and an unpleasant person.
But 200 days of self isolation should have been a red flag, no? I assume we don’t want convicts to hang themselves in their cells, and neither does the prison service.
Why didn’t they get a doctor to look at him? A lot of lags have mental health problems, and some of them should be in loony bins.
Yes, very bad. It’s one thing to tell the bloke you are going to throw away the key, but another thing entirely to tell him it’s somewhere in one of your pockets, but don’t bother me now ‘cos I’m a bit busy…
On the face of it isn’t a Life Sentence indefinite, in the sense that you don’t know how many years it will last?
Some people are so dangerous to the rest of us that they need locking up for the rest of their lives. It’s a pity that we have to rely on the State and its pathetic “Justice” system to supervise this, but what alternatives do we have? We’re surely not going to hand it over to vigilantes?
Open ended sentencing is a bad idea and thankfully defunct.
Not sure this guy is a good poster boy for the argument, though.
Yes, it could be said that if he’d had a concrete release date to aim for then his behaviour may have been different – “keep your nose clean and you’re out in 5 years”. But since no other intervention seems to have had any effect on him there has to be a question mark over that idea.
Some people are just rotten, so leaving them to rot doesn’t change them.
“Refusing to engage with the parole process” may be a euphemism for not submitting to a Soviet-style confessions. Someone who has pled Not Guilty and continues to maintain innocence will not be eligible for parole.
Not perhaps in this case, but in others.
I do incline to the Singapore solution; flog ’em and hang ’em. It does mean you’re not in prison indefinitely, because they’d hang you.
Of course I have an ulterior motive. While I don’t think this’d affect the crime rate, it do believe it’d reduce prison costs. I’ve always been a penny-pinching bastard.
Steve- duty of care agree. They should look after him, get him his medication, keep an eye on him. But they can’t let him out and if he was in solitary because he was a danger to others then what? IMO the coroner strayed into the realm of the current (albeit not for new cases) law of the land. Identifying any procedural flaws or negligence fair enough.
Bboy – genius. Our illegal immigration problem could be easily solved with humane beatings (to deter recidivists) and swift deportation in handcuffs.
And after we’ve gotten rid of MP’s, civil servants, lawyers and journos, we can deport the illegals.
Worth a try.
HB – But they can’t let him out and if he was in solitary because he was a danger to others then what?
Everybody complains about how they closed down the loony bins, but why don’t we just open more loony bins?
A nice padded cell with lots of calming drugs is better than these poor wretches dangling from ropes in their cells.
Also, the unlucky prison guard who found his body. Men don’t always get over something like that, and it’s hard enough for prison guards without having to cut down a bloated corpse. One of the reasons why we hate suicide is that it’s contagious.
You have a point Steve. The old-fashioned loony bin was a form of indefinite detention with the inmates sozzled by drugs. But then they decided that they could cure loonies with the drugs, and dump them outside on the rest of us.
Another way of returning to the good old days.
Care in the Community an early example of activist overreach and no joined up thinking.
Same thing now with drug decriminalisation where I am, no follow through support services that made it work in other places, shelter workers are demanding masks under health and safety regulations due to drug fumes, nurses complaining about drug taking in hospital, used to be smokers outside the door now they are smoking crack. Nurses are being told they can’t confiscate drugs from patients.
The conspiracy theory that the authoritarians a are going to make us beg them to take control by screwing up society and increasing lawlessness is starting to look less and less like a conspiracy
Oooops Steve. I hadn’t noticed you’d suggested humane beatings and swift deportation in handcuffs for MP’s, civil servants, lawyers and journos as well as illegals.
However since I’m only a RETIRED civil servant, I suppose I’ve no reason to disagree.
There was a similar case written about in the Gaurdian where someone on an ipp killed themselves. According to his sister he was just a loveable rogue who just couldn’t keep out of prison for any length of time. His crimes were regularly stealing car for joyrides( which as anyone who reads the Gaurdian is a victimless crime even when the scrote/s torch the car) interspersed with the odd bout of violence etc. I’ve no idea what can stop these persistent offenders (apart from some which would give the human rights lot the vapours). These IPP seems not to be the solution but at the time they probably seemed a solution if not necessarily the optimum solution. As for those still under these IPPs I’ve no idea what to do with them. If they’ve gone mad there is a distinct lack of loony bins to put them in.
Blair’s IPP is inhumane. Tories repealed it, but didn’t change previous convictions
Meanwhile Al-Qaeda’s UK leader due to be released in Junr as he’s completed the de-radiclisation course. The same as Westminster bridge killer…
Its the natural next step, once you all decided ASBO’s were going to be tolerated.
Life without parole for the really appalling crimes: fine. Indefinite sectioning on mental health grounds: yes, OK , I suppose. This though? Something has gone badly wrong here. Throw in that it was introduced by Blair’s government – what paragon of decent humanitarianism he is!