Rishi Sunak has vowed to bring back National Service for 18-year-olds to create a “renewed sense of pride in our country” in his first major policy announcement of the election campaign.
Under the mandatory scheme, school leavers will have to either enrol on a 12-month military placement or spend one weekend each month volunteering in their community.
Know we know how bad they think its going to be, they’re trying to shore up what they think is the core of their core vote.
Sunak can vow anything he wants with zero chance of ever having to implement it.
I’ve been winding up a German friend whose daughter is 18 about getting conscripted.
This is lunacy.
What next ? Chocolate rationing ?
to create a “renewed sense of pride in our country”
It didn’t do so in the past and it won’t do so in the future, especially since wholesale immigration has destroyed any sense of all belonging to a shared country.
’…spend one weekend each month volunteering in their community.’
And the already overstretched emergency services are going to be able to oversee this how, exactly?
I don’t believe the Tories want to win this election. Some bot called Oliver.Dowden has been signalling that the energy supply industry is mortally f*cked. What???? They’ve only just noticed?????
Compulsory volunteering. Yes folks, he actually is suggesting that.
Fuck. My. Life.
Shit, Otto, don’t give them ideas!
Jamie Oliver, in particular, would bansturbate himself blind over the prospect of it – even more so, for an outright ban.
If today’s 18 year-olds already had an instilled “sense of pride in their country”, they might have been prepared to willingly join up in the first place.
I was inclining towards Theophrastus (2066)’s view that we should vote Conservative because we’re underestimating how awful life will be under the other lot.
Not any more. That’s my vote lost, right here.
Perhaps stop making them all think there’s absolutely no point doing anything because we’ll all be blackened crisps in a few weeks time. Still, I suppose it’s a useful distraction from the awful reality Western governments are busily creating. ..
So whats the punishment for not turning up then?
The kids can all play Halo and Call of Duty, so I guess they only need to learn the marching up and down bit and they’re set to go.
They’ve lost it. This makes the ‘Singin in the Rain’ episode look like politicking genius. It appeals to only a tiny handful of voters and would be unworkable.
This kind of thing is how we know “The Conservative Party” are not conservatives. The BBC’s idea of a hardcore Tory would be all over this like a rash.
“Mr Sunak hopes to build on the “national spirit” during the pandemic – which saw thousands of people take up charitable work as vaccinators, NHS responders and volunteers – and channel it into the National Service scheme.”
Gah. The whole thing is that you get that “spirit” under those circumstances. A town gets flooded, people muck in to make sure that everyone has food and medicine. Once the problem is gone, people go back to normal.
And the funny thing was (and this pushed me even further to the right) that it was the free market wot did this better under Covid. Local authorities were demanding pages of forms, safeguarding, and then did nothing. One of the councillors here just set up a Facebook group and had it up and running in hours with requests being fulfilled.
Fun suggestion coming next from Labour: a regulator for airport and train station car parking
But srsly, this national service idea is awful. Friedman’s debate with General Westmoreland about it being slavery is for all time. And while we won’t have the right to arm ourselves, the government will now have the right to arm you.
“Compulsory volunteering”
Straight out of an episode of Dad’s Army!
“So what’s the punishment for not turning up then?”
According to Sky, Home Secretary James Cleverly said “there would be no criminal sanctions for young people who did not take part”.
Exactly what voters was this supposed to appeal to?
How about promising to make something actually work properly? The NHS, the Home Office, any bloody thing?
You wonder what he was on when he decided to suggest this. It certainly comes from someone who hasn’t a scooby about English culture and that of the UK generally. Last time we had conscription outside of wartime it was regarded as mostly a waste of time & money. I think of the tale of the Kray twins who spent their National Service in The Mallet because they wouldn’t cooperate. It would be that in spades this time if the army chose to enforce it.
We’re going to force you to do free work until you love this country more!
That’ll work
Jim,
Cleverley says they’re going to compel people but there won’t be any criminal sanctions. Which means young people could kill it stone dead by just not turning up.
That’s what happened in South Africa. In theory, whites only conscription was still in place, but they’d scrapped the Population Registration Act in 1991 so people no longer belonged to racial groups. Young white people stopped turning up, daring the government to take them to court. The government didn’t want to run the risk of losing, it preferred to make do with those who were still willing to turn up. As the numbers not turning up increased, companies, which had previously released employees for annual camps, started to decree that they considered the camps to be voluntary and if people wanted to attend they would have to take annual leave.
Those supporting the idea in the DT are nearly 4 times those who are opposed, suggesting, among the DT readership, authoritarian, statist Tories significantly outnumber libertarian, small government Tories.
The Tories have spent decades excising, sometimes quite viciously, any libertarian, small government members, never mind MPs.
Yes, it’s evil and stupid.
But it’s also really odd:
“ Under the mandatory scheme, school leavers will have to either enrol on a 12-month military placement or spend one weekend each month volunteering in their community.”
An entire year in the army … or 24 days local community work. The two just aren’t remotely similar.
– Sunak can vow anything he wants with zero chance of ever having to implement it.
Even in the unlikely event he wins. It’s desperate electioneering bollocks on stilts and everyone knows it.
RichardT:
I suppose the year would still be paid. They do pay conscripts don’t they?
Somehow I doubt the community work would be paid, since they’re “volunteering”.
Mostly irrelevant anyway if there’s no penalty for not showing up to either though.
If I’ve got the history right, National Service was scrapped not because the conscripts hated it but because the professionals hated it.
RichardT,
In addition to M’s observation, it doesn’t say the compulsory volunteering will be limited to one year.
The illiterate little shit is been talking about “compulsary volunteering”.
When I was in 17 and 18 I spent my summers doing unpaid work experience in medical engineering. That’s several pieces of engineering research equipment that would have been thrown out of the window.
Ignoring the voluntary work cop out. Are they really suggesting that anything other than a minority of 18 year old British women are in any state to be physically able to undertake basic infantry training (because that’s all that will be on offer). Though those lasses in the IDF (from what their calendars tell us) seem to manage it.
@I sneeze
I hate to break it to you but a minority of 18 year old British men are in any state to be physically able to undertake basic infantry training.
They’ve got it all wrong. What’s needed is conscription of the layabouts on the dole. They can be made to pick litter from the hedges or whatever. As long as no idiot teaches them how to shoot.
Conscription is not slavery – any more than taxation is slavery (though some libertarians [eg Nozick] have been known to argue that taxation is slavery). Conscription and taxation are not slavery because the state grants its citizens various rights and in return is justified in requiring the citizen to fulfill certain duties. A period of military or community service is not an unreasonable demand to make of young people who have yet to contribute to taxation or society generally. Conscription of this type works well in those well-known slave societies such as Israel, Austria and in Scandinavia and the Baltics.
So military service or report to local community for volunteering, which in some areas will be involve the local mosque maybe further providing opportunities to reduce integration and even increase radicalisation
Those more vibrant areas will have a local workaround well before anything is implemented.
The one clever bit I suppose is that there will be a higher education exemption most likely and the lowest rate for that is white working class males so might actually drum up a few extra recruits for the army who were on the fence
Theo
Indeed Israel, being permanently on the Front Line ( like Turkey ) has conscription.
In many European countries, a lot of care and emergency services would not function without conscription. I got to know the ambulance teams in my local town in Austria. They were all doing zivildienst rather than running around forests and digging trenches. The Germans discovered how important this slave labour was when they abolished conscription and now want to reintroduce it.
In its favour is an article in the Speccie, which uses te Norway model as a paradigm.
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/sunak-is-right-britain-needs-national-service/
Theophrastus,
“Conscription and taxation are not slavery because the state grants its citizens various rights and in return is justified in requiring the citizen to fulfill certain duties. A period of military or community service is not an unreasonable demand to make of young people who have yet to contribute to taxation or society generally. Conscription of this type works well in those well-known slave societies such as Israel, Austria and in Scandinavia and the Baltics.”
It’s an entirely unreasonable demand because it’s a restriction on liberty. You cannot have a lie in on a Sunday, or play D&D with your mates, because you have to report to the Community Work Detail every week in 4.
I object to the elevation of “serving the community”, of either picking up a rifle or serving cups of tea to old ladies. We all serve people. The people who design a vacuum cleaner, the people who empty the bins, the people who debug code. People are best doing the things they’re good at. If there’s not enough cups of tea being served then tax us all a little more and hire people who are good at serving tea to old ladies to do it. Same as wasting Elvis Presley’s time being a soldier in Germany. How much more music could he have produced that gave joy to millions?
Anyone doing it will be wasted because the state won’t deploy them well. They’ll be some good looking PR and then some office with a fat woman who doesn’t have a clue telling people which charity they will go and work in, and that charity won’t care about how they’re used, or even what they do. People won’t learn anything useful, won’t contribute anything valuable except for lowest level scut work.
And that’s assuming you can compel people, which you won’t be able to. People will tell the state to fuck off and then what?
The only time that military service works is when people see a good reason for it. Like Israel, like conscription in WW2. But the UK isn’t bordered by hostile nations like Israel.
It’s an entirely unreasonable demand because it’s a restriction on liberty.
1. It’s not unreasonable because it is a moral duty – in return for the rights and benefits the state provides. It is part of a social contract. One of the many problems our society has is the sense of one-way entitlement from the state to the individual. Conscription redresses the balance.
2. Liberty is important and should be a high priority. But we accept many restrictions on our liberty for the greater social good. And conscription has the potential to achieve greater social goods – eg the mixing of races and religions, a sense of social purpose and common purpose, armed forces recruitment, beneficial local projects, etc, etc.
Theophrastus said:
“the state grants its citizens various rights and in return is justified in requiring the citizen to fulfill certain duties“
No.
Our rights are innate (whether you believe they come from our human nature, or from God). A bad State will over-ride them, a good State will recognise and protect them, but it still doesn’t grant them. They are ours, irrespective of how the State regards them.
We may have a duty to help the State defend those rights, which can justify conscription for national defence in wartime.
But that doesn’t give the State any moral right to demand our labour just because it thinks it has thought of something good that it might do with it.
@Theophrastus: Did you do National Service? If not, are you the right age to be included in this new bout of conscription?
@Theophrastus
It is slavery, because it depends upon compulsion.
It is not a contract between consenting adults: civic rights in exchange for civic duties. It is extortion of labour by threat of violence.
However, if the service was voluntary, but civic rights, like voting, were only granted to those who have served, then it would be a fair exchange. Some one should write a book on the subject*.
* Well someone had to reference Starship Trooper:)
And Tom Kratman wrote a whole series on the principle, excellent by the way.
And I suspect that Austrian house decorator was also keen, though I’ve never read him.
Fortunately, the yoof will just give this one a big Nah!. Can you see the riot squads going into mosques and rounding up conscripts?
It is part of a social contract.
Please provide evidence of anyone signing or otherwise agreeing to this ‘contract’, it’s terms and conditions, and the penalties on the ‘social’ (or whoever the other party is) for non provision of the terms therein.
And then fuck off when you can’t.
I look forward to all those splendid retired NCOs from RSM downwards who will relish being re-enlisted. Bless them all! NO AGE LIMITS!!
Theophrastus,
“1. It’s not unreasonable because it is a moral duty – in return for the rights and benefits the state provides. It is part of a social contract. One of the many problems our society has is the sense of one-way entitlement from the state to the individual. Conscription redresses the balance.”
Well, no, it isn’t part of the social contract. The social contract is based on taxing people who succeed, and this works, as long as you don’t erect the sort of ludicrous barriers to success and terrible incentives to breed chavs who live on benefits from the omniparty.
“2. Liberty is important and should be a high priority. But we accept many restrictions on our liberty for the greater social good. And conscription has the potential to achieve greater social goods – eg the mixing of races and religions, a sense of social purpose and common purpose, armed forces recruitment, beneficial local projects, etc, etc.”
The restrictions on liberty should be about where they infringe on other people’s liberties.
As for mixing of races and religions, it’s the omniparty that does things to block this, with “multiculturalism”, “community” schemes and encouraging unemployment that ingrain separation of groups. Trade is how people mix. Abdul realises that Chang can do something useful for him, and he pays him.
As for “social and common purpose”, pass the sick bag. We are not blobs participating in some master plan. We are individuals, families, self-organising groups. The job of the state is to defend the country, protect rights and provide services to the people, something it should try and get right before adding a load of spastic meddling that it’ll also fuck up.
If the armed forces want more people, then just pay more.
Beneficial local projects? So why can’t local people just do it? Or, vote for their council to do it with their taxes?
“However, if the service was voluntary, but civic rights, like voting, were only granted to those who have served, then it would be a fair exchange.”
Don’t we already (allegedly) have that deal, wrt taxation.
It’s all a load of utter tosh in any case, Sunak’s clearly desperate to get back to California asap. I was never as close as Paul (above) to re-considering, but in the same spirit: “no fucking way”. You have to believe or respect, in order to go along with something like conscription, and how do you believe/identify when our political class is doing everything it can to destroy.
Tim The Coder,
“However, if the service was voluntary, but civic rights, like voting, were only granted to those who have served, then it would be a fair exchange. Some one should write a book on the subject*.”
The problem is that you then have cunts like Harriet Harman deciding who gets to vote. What “contribution” they made. Work for the hallowed NHS? You get a vote. Run some strip clubs? You don’t.
Unless you have a simple system, like those who make the largest tax contributions getting to vote (because they’re paying for it) I don’t like it. I’d rather just have everyone getting a vote.
This comes down to my basic thing: was it better that Elvis did national service, or would it have been better for him to entertain people, pay lots of taxes on his income?
Theo – And conscription has the potential to achieve greater social goods – eg the mixing of races and religions, a sense of social purpose and common purpose, armed forces recruitment, beneficial local projects, etc, etc.
Yeah, what could possibly go wrong with giving loads of young Muslim men military training and weapons.
How soon before some ‘diverse’ elements knife some poor fellow volunteer to death?
It’s funny….
Besides the question of whether a state can do this. ( Yes, it can. suck it up, buttercup..) , there’s a very simple reason why this won’t ever see the light of day:
The military itself does not want it.
They, as professionals, will no doubt have spotted the risk of Cultural Enrichment getting training in arms and basic combat.
But what they’re more afraid of is bog-standard british lads getting the same basic training, after they’ve spent decades ensuring that your average bloke knows next to nothing about actual fighting, completely pussyfying two to three entire generations.
Giving young lads and lasses a full year of professional training in questioning orders and knowledge of basic combat and pewpewy stuff may well backfire.
Especially if those lads and lasses do , for some unfathomable reason, learn some esprit de corps, and pride in their nation.
Because then they realise who their enemy actually is, and have a basic clue about what’s needed to deal with them. And sooner or later will proceed to do so…
@Theophrastus – “It is part of a social contract.”
There is no social contract. The situation is that you do what the state says and are entitled to nothing in return. But what the state does grant you at its pleasure, it will often refer to as an entitlement in an attempt to deceive you. Remember that this is a state which has deported its own citizens for not having adequate documentation.
The “social contract” is as much a contract as “social justice” is justice.
Sunak is determined to lose election
This ludicrous idea will never work, will cost a fortune and be unenforcible. Plus lawyers will make millions
We’re looking at ~750,000 18 year old “compulsory volunteers” invading army and “charities”. Cost to them will be enormous
Will their insurers be willing to accept risk to public, employees, real volunteers and property of these “compulsory volunteers” who resent being there and want fired?
DT readers and public support for this shows, as with lockdowns, masks, jabs etc how gullible, shallow and monumemtally stupid people are
Heres another example of mass stupidity:
German Minister admits ruinous home heating ordinances were merely a “test” to determine “how far society is prepared to go in terms of climate protection”
I wholeheartedly agree with what Theo’s said on the subject of conscripton.. So much so I don’t see why only the young should benefit from it. Why should it be denied the old? In fact it should be retrospective. I’d suggest starting with middle aged supporters of the Conservative Party & working backwards. A bit of community service in the sleet & snow of next winter would do them the power of good.
What’s needed is conscription of the layabouts on the dole. They can be made to pick litter from the hedges or whatever.
What, and push out proper, paid, unionised workers?
Ther tuk ur jorbs!!!!!
RichardT
Our rights are innate (whether you believe they come from our human nature, or from God).
That’s semi-mystical dogma. Human/natural rights are merely a metaphor derived from the law and applied to morality. Rights-talk in morality is a convenient but often misleading short-hand. Rights do not exist outside of a legal system.
HHG
Please provide evidence of anyone signing or otherwise agreeing to this ‘contract’, it’s terms and conditions, and the penalties on the ‘social’ (or whoever the other party is) for non provision of the terms therein.
A social contract is a metaphor – like rights. And which like rights has its uses, but should not be taken too literally…
Steve
Yeah, what could possibly go wrong with giving loads of young Muslim men military training and weapons.
Not much, given that they can already get military training indirectly via their local mosque.
If not conscription, then what? Sunak’s proposal is intended to counteract social fragmentation, to instill an esprit de corps in young people, to reduce alienation, to increase the sense of belonging, to preserve a high levels of trust, etc. Diversity of itself is a weakness – because it reduces levels of trust (v. Robert Putnam) – not a strength; and it needs to be counteracted given that it has unfortunately occurred on such a scale. As de Tocqueville saw (in his ‘Democracy in America’), socially centrifugal forces must be counteracted by socially centripetal forces.
Now, some here may deny there is a problem (and be quite happy with the ‘airport lounge model’ of a nation), and others here may accept that there is a problem but maintain that conscription is neither necessary or sufficient as a solution. I get the latter. So, over to you: if you see that there is a problem but you don’t think conscription in some form is even part of the answer, then what is your solution?
Theo,
“If not conscription, then what? Sunak’s proposal is intended to counteract social fragmentation, to instill an esprit de corps in young people, to reduce alienation, to increase the sense of belonging, to preserve a high levels of trust, etc. Diversity of itself is a weakness – because it reduces levels of trust (v. Robert Putnam) – not a strength; and it needs to be counteracted given that it has unfortunately occurred on such a scale. As de Tocqueville saw (in his ‘Democracy in America’), socially centrifugal forces must be counteracted by socially centripetal forces.”
First off, start with changing policy to prevent the creation of the fragmented bits in the first place. That means firstly accepting that single motherhood is overwhelmingly a failure. We stop trying to approach it as how to make single motherhood work better and start saying that you shouldn’t do it. Because single motherhood is one of the greatest problems in our society in terms of crime. And you do that by making the benefits system painfully bad. Survival rations for life. No, you aren’t going to afford tattoos. From this, you stop breeding so many chavs. You have Dads who keep their kids in line, teach them how to behave, so they don’t go into adult life as criminals.
Then, you police crime hard. Once you’ve stopped breeding kids who are endlessly committing crime, you lock people up after 3 offences. Spray graffiti 3 times, you go to jail for a month. Do it again, it’s a year. No messing.
Once you’ve done that, you can start building housing, because what gets in the way of housing is people in nice neighbourhoods not wanting possible criminal scum on their doorstep. If people know the rozzers are going to deal with it, they won’t find it so objectionable.
You change the asylum laws so that we stop accepting people who don’t fit into our culture. So no more Somalis. There are plenty of places near Somalia they can move to. We want the immigrants with skills, with a more modern, liberal sensibility, not people coming here just to create Islamabad-on-Sea.
All of this is possible, and would work. The only thing getting in the way is pathetic Conservatives like May and Cameron who have surrendered to a tiny percentage of the population that read The Guardian and think that flawed people should be treated as victims of society and indulged rather than improved.
And none of this is eugenic. I’m not talking about putting a thumb on the scale in any way. Just removing the thumbs that exists already.
Didn’t Robert Heinlein write a story about only those who served in the military or government service were allowed to vote and/or receive government funded benefits? I wonder what Rishi has been reading recently?
“What, and push out proper, paid, unionised workers?
Ther tuk ur jorbs!!!!!”
The only people picking up litter around these parts are unpaid volunteers, like myself, who picks litter along my farm roadside boundaries, and the middle aged bloke who seems to spend all his spare time walking the local rural roads filling black bin bags with the usual detritus that modern society seems insistent on throwing out of their cars.
WB
Thanks for your response. I agree that discouraging single motherhood, reducing crime and changing asylum laws to deter cultural incompatibles are all desirable objectives. My concerns are that these objectives are (1) more to do with our decadence rather than counteracting the alienation of youth and (2) are not achievable…
Many of the c.2.5m single parents are single because they have been deserted, not because they have chosen a single parent lifestyle. Distinguishing fairly between the two groups would be difficult. And the what-about-the-children? lobby and feminazis would go ballistic even if only single parent chav slags could be precisely targeted. As for asylum seekers, they constituted just 11% of all UK immigrants in 2023. And good luck with discriminating against Somalis: the refugee lobby would be initiating judicial reviews as soon as that was introduced. And reducing immigration generally is no easy task when big business, the Treasury and the Left are in favour of it.
You can all relax, ‘conscription’ anywhere in the West is not going to happen.
For starters, the modern weapon systems are complex and require motivated, capable and well educated people and the ‘apprentice ship’ for a modern soldier usually is longer than conscription would cover.
You could possibly use some of those conscripts to do helper services, but it will be far more trouble than is worth it and can easily put your professional soldiers and their operations at great risk.
Then there is the practical side: you need lots barracks, helmets, uniforms, beds, vehicles and whatnot^3 and above all, enough instructors(a video lecture would not help here…) capable AND willing to babysit those kids. (also of course a military penal system to deal with problem conscripts), along with all the bureaucrazy to manage this.
And, what would the expensive training effort achieve at the end? Nothing much at all, it just will waste everyone’s time and money and deprive the economy of one year labor per cohort.
Running a conscript system is a huge, expensive enterprise in itself and recreating this in Germany (where conscription was recently rescinded) would be impossible to set up, even though there is still some institutional memory and even a few ex-soldiers who could serve as instructors. The UK is in an even worse position and that is before we consider how this could all be paid for.
Likewise for the ‘community service’ (don’t believe the 24 days and done bit here…it’ll end up being as long as the military service, because, ‘fairness’) — that is where the supposed value comes, because one gets free labor for unpopular jobs, such as working in care homes, kitchens and so on. The people working there currently will be delighted to supervise those press-ganged kids.
Germany gave up on conscription for many sensible reasons and those are ever more valid today.
silke
I think we all know you are absolutely right. But then, wtf is Sunak playing at? This wasn’t exactly the sort of crowd pleaser policy that might rejuvenate the right in a last ditch attempt to save the day. It was anything but, utter nonsense as you say, every bit as contemptuous as his brain-dead “three ideas big plan” – get rid of smoking, A levels and whatever else it was (I’ve forgotten).
So why did he do it? He hasn’t had an ounce of political savvy throughout – is it just that, incompetence? Or are he and Starmer just having one big “couldn’t give a shit” laugh at our expense? Unless someone’s got a better/more credible theory.
Silke:
‘conscription’ anywhere in the West is not going to happen.
PF:
I think we all know you are absolutely right.
Conscription already exists in Scandinavia, the Baltics and Austria. Germany is considering reintroducing conscription. Meanwhile, Gen Sir Patrick Sanders, the head of the UK Army, supports Sunak’s policy. And Sir Alex Younger, former head of MI6, has said that Britain should consider a Swedish-style selective military conscription system.
@Penseivat: Tim the Coder already mentioned Starship Troopers upthread. I’m pretty sure it only referred to the right to vote, not the option to receive government benefits.
Theophrastus,
“Many of the c.2.5m single parents are single because they have been deserted, not because they have chosen a single parent lifestyle. Distinguishing fairly between the two groups would be difficult.”
This is about incentives around choices. Right now everyone knows the state will look after them in their poor choices, so they can make poor choices.
“And the what-about-the-children? lobby and feminazis would go ballistic even if only single parent chav slags could be precisely targeted. ”
So? They’re Guardian readers. People who are never going to vote for a party that is about recreating a society built around personal responsibility anyway.
Changing this country is going to require the merciless destruction of the status of the left in and around government,
“As for asylum seekers, they constituted just 11% of all UK immigrants in 2023. And good luck with discriminating against Somalis: the refugee lobby would be initiating judicial reviews as soon as that was introduced.”
OK. And we’ll make sure they won’t win, by scouring for all conflicting legislation (which is where you lose judicial reviews) and changing it in advance. We leave the ECHR, we leave the UN convention on refugees (now an outdated agreement that needs change).
“And reducing immigration generally is no easy task when big business, the Treasury and the Left are in favour of it.”
The treasury? Again: Labour voters as a general rule. The left? Labour voters. Who gives a fuck. As I said, you ain’t losing any votes by these people not liking you. And as for big business, they can fuck off elsewhere if they only exist because of a handout.
“As for asylum seekers, they constituted just 11% of all UK immigrants in 2023. And good luck with discriminating against Somalis: the refugee lobby would be initiating judicial reviews as soon as that was introduced.”
The other bulk, and the most problematic one, is of course never talked about:
The “right” of asylum seekers with a status to import their extended family.
Which makes up for a significant percentage that is *not* counted as “refugee”…..
And that’s ignoring the ones that come in not even planning to go Official, but rely on the “extended family” informal, and quite illegal, Welcome they know they will get once they go underground.
Because none of the “western” nations kick the [censored] back to where they came from if they don’t belong here.
@Western Bloke, May 27, 2024 at 8:49 am
Well said, I agree
@Silke
Spot on
Also, Sunak, Cleverly say they will choose the 30,000 who will be consripted into army. How? Interview & fitness test for all ~750,000 every year? That alone would take forever and cost more than the £2.5 billion budget for whole scheme
What about RoPs? Training them to use guns, explosives doesn’t bode well. Will they be barred? Voluntary work at local mosque instead where trained to be suide bombers?
As for labour, they’re no better. David Lammy is insistent his mandatory volunteering National Civic Sheme will be rolled out