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So they did it then

Donald Trump has been found guilty in his hush money trial in New York.

He has become the first former president to be convicted of a crime, after the jury returned that verdict on all 34 counts.

His lawyers and supporters will wonder how this affects their client’s chances in November’s presidential election, but the more pressing issue will be his sentencing on July 11.

The 77-year-old, who is already liable for half a billion dollars following a string of civil losses, could face a further hefty fine. A prison sentence, though highly unlikely, is also possible.

It’s that last that doesn’t, really, change very much. Even I don’t know whether all the other trials have been civil or criminal so the average voter doesn’t. It really is only actually putting him in jail that’s going to change opinions.

And then the question becomes, well, which opinions and which way?

19 thoughts on “So they did it then”

  1. Bloke in North Dorset

    Just a thought ….

    But if this was a state matter and Biden won in NY what’s the problem and wtf has it to do with NY if, and that’s a big if, did effect the result in another state?

    But as they have brought the trial to NY, knowing that in all likelihood they’d get a biased jury they can’t complain when the Republicans go jurisdiction shopping for a red neck state when the go after those involved in the Biden laptop cover up.

  2. Why does it take a month and a half to decide on the sentence? Justice delayed is justice denied, and all that.

  3. I find it quaint that you can observe all that has happened and is happening and think they care about opinions, Tim.

    I also find it quaint that you think any of this will have any bearing on the ‘election’. There is no democracy, perhaps anywhere in the west.

  4. @Andrew M

    Why does it take a month and a half to decide on the sentence? Justice delayed is justice denied, and all that.

    I’m sorry, what??

  5. @BiND

    But as they have brought the trial to NY, knowing that in all likelihood they’d get a biased jury they can’t complain when the Republicans go jurisdiction shopping for a red neck state when the go after those involved in the Biden laptop cover up.

    It is mind-blowing to me that sensible people like you are unable to see that there ain’t going to be any Republicans shopping for any red neck states to go after anyone involved in any Biden laptop cover up, or anything else.

    It’s over. It’s done. The Republic is dead. The Constitution is on fire.

    The alleged ‘president’ is a dementia patient which at the very least ought to tell you that the man nominally in charge isn’t really in charge, which ought further to tell you that there are people in charge who were never voted into that position, and possibly any other, by anyone.

    Those people have just let it be known that they are totally cool with US (and British)missiles being fired into Russia by US and British troops (because, as Putin makes clear in his measured response, which western media don’t seem to want to carry, those missiles cannot be fired without NATO know-how and comms and satellite guidance.

    Russia, which has just undergone nuclear testing exercises, is shortly going to see missiles come across its border and it is going to have seconds to minutes to answer questions such as, Are these nuclear-armed or not, and how do we respond?

  6. So the precedent is set: a president can imprison their opponent.
    The Democrats now cannot afford an election result, however established, that removes them from power, because the precedent will have them all against the wall the following day.

    Expect blatant fraud, expect attempts to avoid an election: WW3 crisis perhaps.

    They really have crossed a threshold of violence that’s going to be hard to stop.
    Pity the jurors: them, and the prosecutors, and the judge, are all marked menroaches.

  7. @Interested

    US and UK missiles do not need NATO communications knowhow or satellite guidance

    Indeed NATO is almost totally dependent on the US for all of these things

  8. @Starfish

    US and UK missiles do not need NATO communications knowhow or satellite guidance
    Indeed NATO is almost totally dependent on the US for all of these things

    Maybe I was unclear. I was saying that Ukraine cannot fire the latest US or UK missiles without US or UK manpower and comms/guidance, and using NATO as a catch-all term for the US and UK (which I know it isn’t, obviously, but since Stoltenberg is beating the war drum it doesn’t really matter).

    To put it simply: if we (the US and UK, or NATO) think we can hide behind ‘Yes, we gave Ukraine those weapons but it was Ukrainians who made the decision to use them, and developed the targets, and coordinated their flights’ we are in for a very nasty surprise.

    Here’s Putin on the Kremlin website, which we really ought to read:

    With regard to the strikes, frankly, I am not sure what the NATO Secretary General is talking about. When he was the Prime Minister of Norway, we communicated and addressed challenging issues concerning the Barents Sea and other issues, and generally, we were able to come to terms, and I am positive he was not suffering from dementia back then. If he is talking about potentially attacking Russia’s territory with long-range precision weapons, he, as a person who heads a military-political organisation, even though he is a civilian like me, should be aware of the fact that long-range precision weapons cannot be used without space-based reconnaissance. This is my first point.

    My second point is that the final target selection and what is known as launch mission can only be made by highly skilled specialists who rely on this reconnaissance data, technical reconnaissance data. For some attack systems, such as Storm Shadow, these launch missions can be put in automatically, without the need to use Ukrainian military. Who does it? Those who manufacture and those who allegedly supply these attack systems to Ukraine do. This can and does happen without the participation of the Ukrainian military. Launching other systems, such as ATACMS, for example, also relies on space reconnaissance data, targets are identified and automatically communicated to the relevant crews that may not even realise what exactly they are putting in. A crew, maybe even a Ukrainian crew, then puts in the corresponding launch mission. However, the mission is put together by representatives of NATO countries, not the Ukrainian military.

    So, these officials from NATO countries, especially the ones based in Europe, particularly in small European countries, should be fully aware of what is at stake. They should keep in mind that theirs are small and densely populated countries, which is a factor to reckon with before they start talking about striking deep into the Russian territory. It is a serious matter and, without a doubt, we are watching this very carefully.

    http://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/news/74132?utm_source=substack&utm_medium=email

  9. @ Interested, I don’t wish to compound your Russia diversion from the Trump excitement, but you should remember that Russia, according to Russia, now includes Crimea, Luhansk, Donetsk, Zaporizhzhia, and Kehrson oblasts as part of its nation and constitution. “NATO” missiles are already falling on Russia (according to Russia).

  10. @PJF

    There is such a thing as ‘face’ in international relations, and there’s a significant difference between territory that the entire world considers to be Russian and territory that Russia claims is Russian where fighting is or has been going on.

    Unless you’re saying that you would expect precisely the same reaction from the Russkis to Ukraine dropping NATO ordnance on an airfield in Voronezh, or – why not? – Moscow itself as to Ukraine firing NATO missiles at Russian army targets on the frontline, howsoever territorially described?

    Blinken certainly sees the distinction, and feels it important enough to have announced to the NYT two days ago that:

    [T]he Biden administration could be open to tolerating strikes by the Ukrainian military inside Russia using American-made weapons, saying that the United States would “adapt and adjust” its stance based on changing conditions on the battlefield.
    Mr. Blinken said that the United States had neither encouraged nor enabled such attacks.
    When asked by a reporter whether his words “adapt and adjust” meant the United States could support attacks by Ukraine with American-made weapons inside Russia, he said, “Adapt and adjust means exactly that”… Washington has sent the Ukrainians military aid but has repeatedly asked that they not fire U.S.-made weapons into Russian territory for fear of escalating the war.

  11. And then the question becomes, well, which opinions and which way?

    The fact that shortly after the verdicts were announced both the Republican Party and Trump donation websites crashed under the load might give some slight indication…?

  12. Just to observe: a) Smith&Wesson stock shot up 4.5% after hours, and b) I fully expect that when I go to the gun shop tomorrow the line for service at the counter is going to be out the door.

  13. “ And then the question becomes, well, which opinions and which way?”

    Immediately after the verdict announced, the Trump campaign website crashed, overwhelmed by the number of people trying to make donations.

    Suggests which way public opinions have gone. If he is jailed, they had better add capacity to their website.

  14. If I remember correctly, the New York trial was civil because a criminal trial would require a jury and there wasn’t one.

  15. By “the New York trial” I meant the one about the loans. So I guess it’s “the other one”.

  16. The reaction around here is an icy rage. Most folks think that the Democrats have broken the Republic. Stockpiling ammo and food seems to be the response.

    My bet is that, depending on how the election goes, there will be a trucker’s strike, like in Canada. There has already been one over the border. The current junta has been aiming restrictions directly at independent truckers. Labor laws aimed at restricting self employment, energy laws aimed at raising fuel prices, and pollution requirements aimed at increasing truck prices and operating costs.

    Shut down the trucking industry and we are only four meals away from revolution.

  17. @Starfish

    Interested is correct. Missiles are and have been under full control by UK & US ‘boots on the ground’. We’ve known this since they were ‘given’ to Ukraine, it’s been widely reported

    Ukraine asks if a target may be hit. UK, US then decide and pull trigger if yes

    Two recent articles on proxy war:

    One

    Two

    @Baron Jackfield

    After verdict Trump received over $39 million in donations. Vitually all small $5 to £50

  18. Seeing as how each felony conviction just netted Trump about $2M a piece, future still remains to be seen

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