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Well, yes, OK

Making the case against her, barrister Joe Allman sought to illuminate how differently society tends to view female teacher predators compared to their male counterparts. Had Rebecca been “Robert” instead, and the complainants girls not boys, the response would surely not have been the same, the prosecutor argued.

This thought experiment was more than a courtroom flourish. There is evidence to support the idea that society does indeed view female teachers who prey on male school pupils in an alternative light to how male teachers preying on girls are seen.

Society does view it differently. Much of the rest of the article is about how terribly damaging such is and how awfully damaged the lads are by having had sex at 15.

And yet – why does society regard this differently?

Leave aside the teacher part – position of power, duty of care and all that. Think instead about 30 year old haveing sex with 15 year old. Society does view it differently dependent upon the male and or female ages there, which way around are they?

We can and should go on – that society views them differently means they are different. Because this is exactly the sort of thing where it’s the views of society that make the difference. That is, it is different because society views it differently. QED.

22 thoughts on “Well, yes, OK”

  1. I suspect all males present in court were also squirming thinking about their teenage fantasies of that art teacher who used to lean over the tables…

  2. Surreptitious Evil

    There is the fairly obvious point that even in these modern days, it is rather unlikely that either of the boys (young men?) would have become pregnant.

    Which doesn’t make it “right”, moral or illegal, just with a less serious potential of life ruining damage.

  3. There is the fairly obvious point that even in these modern days, it is rather unlikely that either of the boys (young men?) would have become pregnant.

    Humph, but they have the right to become pregnant !

  4. She was stupid consorting with her own pupils. Surely she could have found willing 16 year olds from elsewhere. It’s not as if they are thin on the ground if the offer is there. Perfectly legal too if rather murky morally.

  5. Bizarrely what TG saud has reminded me of a Sapphire and Steel episode. It is set in a closed down railway station haunted by the malevolent ghost of a Great War soldier.
    Joanna Lumley becomes possessed by the spirit of the soldier’s girlfriend, who was his teacher at school.

    It is a fantastic serial, bit long at 8 parts, but JL plays a blinder in it.

  6. It’s the grooming process that is so very different. For the male teacher and female pupil it’s a long process with the teacher being nice, paying the girl compliments and making her feel special. For the female teacher and boy pupil all this gets compressed down to her asking “fancy a shag?”.

  7. But that “what’s special about girls that isn’t about boys?” isn’t primarily about pregnancy (although that is a concern), but about the loss of virginity and with it the loss of childhood innocence.

    There is no male equivalent to “taking the cherry” in a female.

    In traditional culture, if there wasn’t blood on the bedsheets on the wedding night then that was problematic, although any clever girl (or her mother) knew how to trick her “fool of a husband” into thinking she was a virgin.

    We might be a long way from the society where this sort of thing mattered, yet somehow it still matters.

    Humans are weird.

  8. Even in this modern era, men are expected to be the instigators in sexual relations. Females are the gatekeepers.

    That being so, the assumption of a male teacher and female student is that he probably instigated it. In contrast for a female teacher and male student, there is ambiguity. Did she take advantage of her position or did he fulfil the expected male role?

    On top of that we already know that women select – they generally don’t marry down. eg. Male doctors marry female nurses but not vice versa. If this idea is generally held as true, then it would make the thought of a female teacher selecting a student (lower status) as implausible.

  9. On top of that we already know that women select – they generally don’t marry down. eg. Male doctors marry female nurses but not vice versa. If this idea is generally held as true, then it would make the thought of a female teacher selecting a student (lower status) as implausible.

    But you’re mistaking what hypergamy defines, it is not about “what job you do” (although that is a factor in later life), it’s about social status, even in high school.

    She ain’t trying to score with the dork son of a millionaire, she’s trying to score with the hot boy with the awesome body of a teenager.

    It’s about sexual market value.

  10. But you’re mistaking what hypergamy defines….

    Where we agree is that (in most of these cases) the female teacher is going with the hot young male (jock).

    However, I’m trying to think about this in the abstract: the juror who asks “What does she see in him?” I’ve actually heard people (invariably women) ask “Why did she risk it” when the water cooler conversation turns to one of these cases. Risk implies they have lost something of value in exchange for something that wasn’t worth it. I picked doctor as my example but I wasn’t thinking of job, so much as status. A high school jock is not status worthy, except to a high school girl.

    My point is that there is an unmistakeable ambiguity in people trying to decipher the female motivation which is virtually absent in the case of males.

  11. It is clear that there is a get out of jail free card for the average woman convicted of anything

    Single, preferably with multiple children, preferably under school age and they are virtually fireproof unless they hurt their kids, and even then they usually blame it on a partner

    Equality? Pah!

  12. @Ottokring – I remember that “Sapphire and Steel” story (was there some haunting whistling in it?), and on the subject of Joanna Lumley, she could have had my cherry any time she wanted when I was 15 – she’d have been 32 then. I can only suppose it would have done me much good rather than any harm.

  13. This saddens me, it is wrong and bad, and wrong-headed. It is definitely a serious breach of trust and as such an instant dismissal but I cannot see that the boy has been harmed and a long prison sentence is entirely inappropriate. And I speak as a father of four teenage boys (18,16,14×2). I think I would be chuffed if on of my lads had had it away with the teacher.
    This is a poison of our age.

  14. I don’t believe boys are hurt at all by an older fem doing ‘em. In the US & probably elsewhere, there was no “age of consent” laws for boys, only girls & that used to be a property right as a girls virginity had economic value. I think it was the feminists in the US claiming boys = girls & they must have “age of consent” laws like the girls. Maybe Timmy knows the history of such laws.

    In HS in 1959 my best friend had an affair with his married & pretty English teacher, which she initiated. I pleaded with him to keep his mouth shut to avoid losing a good thing. Dumbass couldn’t help it. He told a few boys who didn’t believe him, so he called her with boys on phone extensions listening while he & she talked about their sex lives. It went viral through the school & the teacher was fired by the school administration, but no legal charges were brought. Made sense, because my buddy was not hurt but a HS hero to boys & girls for banging his pretty teacher while with all knowing about it, the teacher may have had trouble with her student’s respect, given the boy/girl difference of expectations.

    I’m not even sure if it harms young girls either with virginity not so important anymore. Some years ago in a TV interview a girl said in HS she fell in love with her teacher, they did the wild thing, & later she married him. She claimed older men having sex with school girls was fine using her experience as proof.

  15. Johnnybonk

    The three magical Ss of the time : Sapphire, Servalan, Sigourney

    I was just at the right age, too.

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