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Well, yes Dan

It will be a miracle if American democracy survives this election
Trump has tapped into the visceral anger of citizens who no longer believe in institutions that have failed them

And also:

At some point over the past ten years, these norms were dropped, and politics became an all-or-nothing affair in which any win for the other side was treated as cataclysmic. To some degree, a similar process has been playing out in other advanced democracies – witness the under-reported rise of the authoritarian Right in Europe. But Trump, as much the catalyst as the beneficiary of the process, has taken it further in the US.

It is possible to think that this started on only the one side. Having done so well in that march through the institutions then the noose was tightened…..

33 thoughts on “Well, yes Dan”

  1. Is this the Authoritarian Right that believes in free speech, personal autonomy, getting to spend your money on your own wants and needs instead of what the government decides you should have? That kind of authortarianism?

  2. In other words, Dan feels that if the pestilent plebs elect Trump the Terrible, democracy will have been destroyed.

    Oddly enough, I feel the same way about the vile policies people like him support!!!

  3. As with others here, I’m more concerned about the under-reported rise of the authoritarian Left. Indeed, not so much under-reported as enthusiastically cheered on.

  4. “Suppose that you were to travel a decade back in time, and say to your 2014 self, “Ten years from now, you’ll be arguing that it’s fine for your candidate to pay off a porn star and then lie about it provided there is no technical violation of campaign finance rules”. How do you think your younger self would react?”

    Don’t forget to add in “And the current President of the US is a bumbling dementia patient who hates America and all she stands for…”

  5. Western institutions haven’t ‘failed’ the people; they’re actively working against them…

  6. I’ve long had suspicions that Daniel Hannan is wet, even though a Brexiter. Now he’s confirmed

    Daniel Hannan’s Attrocious Attack on Donald Trump in Telegraph

    Since being Lorded he’s revealed his true leftie inner self. Similar to Hauge. I wonder if Hannan views CINO Gove as “His Hero” as Hauge does

    Much better:

    Michael Deacon: If Trump’s opponents think this will cost him votes, they’re in for a rude awakening

    Millions of Americans voted for Trump despite his countless previous outrages. Why should this time be any different?

    This is good
    POTW: Hellary Clinton ripped

  7. Bloke in North Dorset

    “ Millions of Americans voted for Trump despite his countless previous outrages. Why should this time be any different?”

    When asked the hypothetical question about voting for a convicted felon most people said they wouldn’t, it’s going to be interesting to see what the polls say in a couple of days when the conviction has been processed and it is no longer hypothetical.

    My money is on polls showing his vote increasing.

  8. Theophrastus (2066)

    Trump has tapped into the visceral anger of citizens who no longer believe in institutions that have failed them.

    Quite so. And if people lose faith in most (or even just some) of a society’s institutions, then the sense of ‘us’ and of the collective ‘we’ – the acknowledgement of some common ground with most of our fellow citizens, whatever our individual interests – weakens and fades. Without that common ground, the centrifugal force of democracy is not countered by the centripetal forces provided by shared institutions. This results in polarisation of opinion, a lack of rational debate and an unwillingness to negotiate mutually satisfactory solutions. And democracy becomes largely unworkable, as does the welfare system because richer people become increasingly unwilling to make financial sacrifices for people with whom they have no common ground

    In the UK, many people have quite rightly lost faith in many of our institutions, eg the BBC, the churches, charities, schools, universities, parliament, local government etc, etc. The institution of the family is in decline, and mass immigration dilutes our culture. The historical narrative of “our island story” – with its long journey to parliamentary government and constitutional monarchy, not to mention the largely beneficent effects of the British Empire – is disparaged and undermined. The “long march through the institutions” continues, with perhaps only the monarchy and (bizarrely, given its performance) the NHS having majority support.

  9. Theophrastus (2066)

    BiND

    ISTM that Trump has a good chance of winning his appeal. As Hannan says:

    The case was brought by a district attorney who had been elected promising to would go after the former president, and was heard by jurors in an anti-Trump part of New York. Trump’s conviction rested on the notion that he paid hush money only for electoral advantage – in other words, that he would not have paid it anyway. [emphasis added]

    Arguably, Trump paid hush money for reasons other than electoral advantage – eg to prevent his wife and family finding out about his rogering of a porn actress.

  10. I always find it strange that the works of Tolstoy, Kafka and Orwell have been used as handbooks rather than dystopian warnings…

  11. Bloke in Germany in Portugal

    Is hiding the contents of a certain Presidential offspring’s laptop also electoral fraud?

  12. “Suppose that you were to travel a decade back in time, and say to your 2014 self, “Ten years from now, you’ll be arguing that it’s fine for your candidate to pay off a porn star and then lie about it provided there is no technical violation of campaign finance rules”. How do you think your younger self would react?”

    Except nobody’s arguing that. The argument, supported by the evidence given in the trial, is that the sum was indeed for unpaid legal fees, while the tart and her lawyer were attempting an extortion scam not unlike the one he’s currently serving time for.

    How would your younger self feel if he was to discover you were supporting the felony conviction of a man for alleged misdemeanors which were well past the statute of limitations purely because he’s an inconvenience to the Democrat Party, Dan?

  13. To repeat what I wrote on another thread, there’s a sizeable part of the Brit electorate would like the opportunity to vote for someone like Trump. So with the Tories losing voters in droves, it seems unwise for Hannan to craft an article about half of which is his expressing his distaste for Trump.
    There was actually a good opportunity there to point out the similarities between the US & the UK. In both the State apparatus & the judicial & legal system have been captured by the left & the left are using it to hamper their opponents. Just the US is somewhat further down that road because the incumbent administration is of the left. But Hannan didn’t see it.
    And that would be my response to Theo’s pleas for voting Tory. No the Tory party & Labour are not equivalent. The Tories are a bunch of incompetent cvnts who don’t understand how to win or what to do if they did. And giving them another term in office isn’t going to change that. There is no option but they should be totally destroyed. If the price of that is a Labour government, so be it.

  14. So, the people who told us that Bill Clinton getting blowjobs IN THE OVAL OFFICE FROM AN INTERN isn’t important are also telling us that an alleged old extramarital affair is critical?

  15. witness the under-reported rise of the authoritarian Right in Europe.
    Under-reported? Jeez where’s Hannan been the last couple of decades? In the bog & being fed with plates passed under the door. It’s almost been impossible to open a paper or watch TV without being repeatedly warned about the rise, rise & even further rise of the extreme-far-even further far – fascist right. “Beware of Nazis under the bed!!!” Worth pointing out to Hannan that the Tories are usually included in that category.

  16. Martin Near The M25

    “… politics became an all-or-nothing affair in which any win for the other side was treated as cataclysmic.”

    That’s awful. I wonder how that happened and who was responsible.

  17. When asked the hypothetical question about voting for a convicted felon most people said they wouldn’t

    Funny how the follow up question is never “and how about voting for a man who takes showers with his teenage daughter?”

  18. Theophrastus:

    In the UK, many people have quite rightly lost faith in many of our institutions, eg the BBC, the churches, charities, schools, universities, parliament, local government etc, etc.

    And those institutions respond by showing even more contempt for those who have lost faith. Worse, they would argue that this isn’t contempt or hate, and that contempt and hate are by definition only those things which disagree with them.

  19. Bloke in North Dorset

    Theo,

    Trump may well win his appeal and if he does the judge and prosecutor will rightly get a bollocking from the appeal court over the way they’ve handled the case, but in the meantime Trump remains guilty in the eyes of the law and as the appeal isn’t going to happen anytime soon so he will go in to the election as a felon.

    I wouldn’t put it past Trump to delay the appeal himself so that he can go in to the election as a felon.

  20. “… politics became an all-or-nothing affair in which any win for the other side was treated as cataclysmic.”

    I seem to remember the Democrats warning that every Republican candidate was an evil far-righter who would destroy America. Even the wettest RINO. I did think at the time that they were running out of words to use if they ever got a really right wing opponent.

  21. “Suppose that you were to travel a decade back in time, and say to your 2014 self, “Ten years from now, you’ll be arguing that it’s fine for your candidate to pay off a porn star and then lie about it provided there is no technical violation of campaign finance rules”. How do you think your younger self would react?”

    How about casting your mind back thirty years to 1994 and a president who had a bimbo eruption control team. Whose chief economics advisor, James “it’s the economy stupid” Carville said, “Drag a hundred-dollar bill through a trailer park, you never know what you’ll find.” A president who played “hide the cigar” with an intern. Where when cought perjuring himself, was defended by the Democrats saying, “it’s not important, it’s only about sex.”

    Who would have thought that 30 years later they would be convicting a president for “only about sex”?

  22. Do those of you who are confident that Trump will win on appeal know that the NY appeals court comprises five black women?

    I suspect this one will go all the way to the Supreme Court – which by then might be a 17-judge Democrat led organisation.

    Not that, as I keep saying, any of this shit means anything much.

  23. I wouldn’t put it past Trump to delay the appeal himself so that he can go in to the election as a felon

    I wouldn’t put it past Trump to have intendedly tried for a guilty verdict.
    The trial was always theatre to influence the election. And he was aware that can work ways. On balance, it’s looking like he’s going to come out ahead of the game.

    Question: Anyone think Trump would have been in the running for ’24 without the Dem long running campaign to demonise him?

  24. “Suppose that you were to travel a decade back in time, and say to your 2014 self, “Ten years from now, you’ll be arguing that it’s fine for your candidate to pay off a porn star and then lie about it provided there is no technical violation of campaign finance rules”. How do you think your younger self would react?”

    The same as how I’d have felt in 2014. Prostitution should be legal. Paying a prostitute not to talk about it rather suggests Trump as the victim here as that’s blackmail. And lying about fucking a prostitute? I don’t care.

    The accounting side I’m more worried by. Shouldn’t be doing that.

    But in general, I couldn’t give a toss if someone is hiring 3 ladyboys for some bum fun. Reform services, cut tax, get house building, send the boats back. Those are your jobs, not being head of the Junior Anti-Sex League.

    And I tend to relax if men are fucking other women. Lust is the most normal of all vices for men in power with the minimal impact on the country.

  25. @bloke in spain – “there’s a sizeable part of the Brit electorate would like the opportunity to vote for someone like Trump”

    I though that that was what gave us Boris.

  26. I think I could tell that by his choice of crumpet though. Trump’s into serious wenches. How can one respect a man when the best he can do looks like it belongs stealing from a bird feeder.

  27. Pcar

    Just imagine the aftermath of a not guilty verdict (and I don’t just mean on the set of The View).

  28. What was it about the all out frontal attack on the winners of 2016 votes for ‘getting it wrong’? followed by strenuous efforts to stop the vote from being upheld?
    Who did that?
    It wasn’t the right, the great unwashed, it was the elite.
    And the barricades weren’t up in the USA in case Trump lost, they were there for the riots expected if he’d won.

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