And the gunman was conveniently shot very dead, so will never be able to tell who (if anyone) put him up to it.
Just another ‘Lone Gunman’ who wasn’t in any way known to the authorities or in communication with any of them trying to egg him on. /sarc
wat dabney
That image of Trump, bleeding from the ear and holding up a fist, surrounded by the Secret Service and with the Stars and Stripes behind him, is pretty epic. Like the Marines raising the flag on Iwo Jima. Let’s hope it gets him across the line.
Boganboy
Entertaining that they always seem to try to shoot Republican (ex) presidents.
Rupert
Lefies projecting as usual.
philip
Democrats alleging it was a stunt by Trump himself in 3, 2, 1…
John
See?
He made me do it!
RichardT
Jim said:
“wasn’t … any of them trying to egg him on. /sarc”
Well except Biden very publicly egged him on last week:
“we’re done talking about the debate, it’s time to put Trump in a bullseye”
All the political violence, in Europe and in the US, has come from the Left or ethnic minorities.
Martin Near The M25
“… wishing no ill to Trump …”
At this point the Ely Fire Brigade were called to attend a blazing pair of trousers. A man named locally as “That tosser” somehow escaped injury.
john77
Assassination is almost universally a left-wing tactic. Who was it who said “political powr grows out of the barrel of a gun”?
@ Jim The conspiracy theories about JFK involve a right-wing plot to kill a right-of-centre Democrat (JFK got on well with MacMillan partly because it suited both of them as JFK was leader of the notionally left-wing party in the USA and to the right of Mac who was leaderof the notionally right-of-centre part in the UK and their friendship bolstered each of them against the non-centrists in their own parties) to replace him with a pretty left-of-centre Democrat: an implausible degree of stupidity .
Joe Smith
I’ve commented on here before that a Trump assassination would be highly probable. I’m not claiming any great insight as it’s obvious that the deep state has no limits to what they’ll do to stop him becoming POTUS again.
Having had their shot (see what I did there!) and failed, I wonder if they can risk it again? Security will undoubtedly be strengthened around Trump – perhaps even private security if the USSS can’t be trusted to do their jobs correctly.
This does make the likelihood of violence on the street much greater. Previously, useful fuckwits like Antifa and BLM could cause chaos with little to no push back as the right were busy getting on with their lives. Much more likely now that patriots from the right will oppose this action in a very forceful way.
There is talk about rhetoric needing to calm down on both sides. That’s not going to work, because it was primarily coming from one side and it’s so ingrained it can’t be stopped. If you get triggered by the very mention of Trump’s name and think that trying to stop an invasion of immigrant is akin to the holocaust, then clearly you are on a righteous mission and the ends justify the means.
A good hard dose of reality should see the left reap what they have sown.
As an aside, I see that Brendan “Wandering Hands” Cox had popped up to make comment. Along with being a useful tool of the left (not above some rhetoric himself), what is wrong with him that he can’t stop milking the memory of his wife’s murder?
People on the left are really showing their true colours today, aren’t they? When Elon cleans house at Twitter, as a result, it’s going to be a much improved place.
bloke in spain
I would have thought if violence is being encouraged anywhere it’s in the writings of a certain Richard Murphy. Who assigns malice to the intentions & actions of everyone else but said Richard Murphy.
Ironman
Yes, vile indeed.
He is following the “Of course, I don’t condone violence, not me. But he had it coming, wink wink”.
Well Ritchie, you HAVE condoned it. And you condoned every time you watched eggs being thrown at the Conservative Party chairman, or ‘ice cream’ (with concrete innit) being thrown at Nigel Farage or laughed when a thug takes up position outside Jacob Rees-Mogg’s home and screams in the ears his children. OR SAID NOTHING WHEN A CONSERVATIVE MP IS STABBED TO DEATH FOR BEING A CONSERVATIVE MP.
I say guilty.
Western Bloke
and what about how the press constantly makes shit up or exaggerates that fascism is just around the corner, hmmm?
So this 20 year old Antifa member who donated $15 to the Biden campaign, but is also (for some reason) a “Registered Republican” tried to shoot Trump from an exposed rooftop 130 metres from the candidate.
Yeah. Someone’s lying.
How fortunate that the “shooter” is now dead, so that he can’t be interviewed, tried and imprisoned.
Totally not a patsy.
Ironman
So, the executions of the Nazi leadership after the Nuremberg trials; justified?
The hanging of the traitor, William Joyce, Lord Haw Haw; justified?
The killing of Osama Bin Laden in Pakistan; justified?
Barack Obama’s drone strikes?
And if any of these are justified, against those who have attacked our state and our democracy, then what about somebody who represents “an existential threat to our democracy”?
Because if you’ve repeated that line, if you cheered when the Colorado State Supreme Court tried to bar him as an insurrectionist, then surely, surely you must applaud the man who shot Donald Trump. Surely you must find his actions justified. Because, if not, you are culpable for this attempted murder.
Bloke in North Dorset
Apparently he had an AR15, in which case I’m going with the lone nutter theory. Yes, some of the things people have said, including Biden, may have encouraged him but if he’d been pushed or there really was a conspiracy they’d have at least encouraged him to use a hunting rifle as they’d have known a miss, especially one like this, would only aid Trump.
bloke in spain
Thanks for that comment, Joe Smith. Very well said. And it’s something I’ve been trying to get across here. The left have a long history of employing both the democratic process & the extra-democratic. We’ve just seen it in France. RN have gone from first to third place in the second stage in the election because the left’s threats to bring violence & chaos to French streets should RN triumph.
And you’ve seen the same thing in the UK. Above the line the Labour Party behaves as a conventional political party. But it’s based on the left’s campaign of hate against anything that isn’t of the left. And yes they are quite happy with violence if it serves their interest. And this is intentional, however much they would deny it.
This is something people on what might be called the right need to understand. You are not going to get into political power unless you understand it. The example is the last government who were in government but not in power. The left were in power.
Steve
This was literally CNN’s first attempt at a headline:
Secret Service rushes Trump off stage after he falls at rally
bloke in spain
Can’t help but notice how prominently the media are covering that the shooter was a registered Republican. Usually appears in the first sentence. That he donated to a left cause in ’22 sometimes gets mentioned further down. Bearing in mind the 15 bucks donated would be serious donated to an 18 y/o, I’d guess we should follow the money on this one. He’s also now being reported as wearing a t-shirt features graphics of a gun ownership supporting YouTube channel. I’m thinking, if one was about to attempt an assassination & likely expecting to be arrested, one might give thought to the message what one was wearing might send. Or what political party one was registered to.
bloke in spain
Can we now officially rename the US ’24 Presidential campaign “The War of Trump’s Ear”?
BraveFart
I imagine that this morning across the breakfast table in the unimpressive Ely end-terrace, Murphy’s eldest son said something like the below to Murphy (in the same vein as his comment about the Dachau visit):
“Dad, if you’d been there, they’d have shot at you”
andyf
If someone had taken a shot at Biden there would have been calls for Trump to be arrested.
dearieme
“Like the Marines raising the flag on Iwo Jima.” But that was a fake, a posed re-enactment of what had happened earlier. Nothing posed about this one, though.
I’ve said for two or three years that “they” would attempt to assassinate Trump.
I’ve even wondered out loud whether the Dems would try to resolve their Biden problem by assassinating him and trying to frame Trump. Too late now, I suppose.
Was the US Secret Service utterly incompetent – not having a couple of men on each relevant rooftop – or was it a plot? God knows. It’s too easy, too lazy, too stupid, to say don’t blame a plot when you could blame incompetence.
And the chaps who couldn’t competently guard the presidential candidate proved competent enough to kill the shooter immediately afterwards. How handy.
My old advice to Americans was “Hold your nose and vote for Trump.” Maybe I should modify that: “Cup your ear and vote for Trump.”
Mohave Greenie
The assassin was no run of the mill lefty mouth breather. It took a considerable amount of training to come as close as he did. Climb a building, take a few seconds to find an aim point, and get four close shots in rapid succession. Doing this from 300-400 yards required breath training, muscle training and good physical conditioning.
The Secret Service was very lax in covering the roof tops around the event. However, the counter fire was quick and spot on.
Starfish
“The Secret Service was very lax in covering the roof tops around the event. However, the counter fire was quick and spot on.”
Yes
Almost like two different sections were working to separate orders/direction
Standby for ‘citizens patrols’ to ensure Trump stays safe and that the USSS actually does the job it has signally failed to do
Dennis, Pointing Out The Obvious
Note that Murphy’s statement is simply a variation of the “She brought it on herself by dressing/acting provocatively” justification for rape. Very much par for the course.
A couple of things to note:
When it comes to the Secret Service, never attribute to malign intent when simple incompetence will do. The Secret Service has a long and distinguished record of failing (spectacularly) at its primary mission. This will end up be yet another example of that failure. Trump survived by the grace of God, not because the Secret Service did its job.
The fact that the three buildings – which were about 150 yards from the podium and with clear line of sight – were not cleared is a perfect example of that incompetence. An average shot with a .556, a scope, and a good understanding of elevation and windage could make that shot. I’ve shot scoped rifles at that distance enough to know that shot was not beyond my very average capabilities.
As someone who has never dealt with the Secret Service, but has dealt with the FBI, Dept of Justice attorneys and investigators, IRS auditors, attorneys and CID agents, Dept. of Agriculture CID agents and INS agents, I can state confidently that the best of the best do not go into government service. What government gets is what it can get. Despite the Secret Service (and the FBI, for that matter) continuously selling themselves as some sort of elite, the truth of the matter is far more prosaic: For the most part these individuals are mediocrities. Those who have initiative and independent judgment either leave the job or submit to having that initiative and judgment drilled out of them. They are, first and foremost, bureaucrats. The fact that they carry guns and sometimes get to dress up in camo doesn’t change that essential fact.
Jim
“It took a considerable amount of training to come as close as he did. Climb a building, take a few seconds to find an aim point, and get four close shots in rapid succession. Doing this from 300-400 yards required breath training, muscle training and good physical conditioning.”
It wasn’t 300-400 yards, it was about 140. And the gunman had a minimum of several minutes to settle himself on the roof, because at least one bystander spotted him up there for that period of time, and informed the police and Secret Service who did nothing until he opened fire (what a surprise).
In other words they let someone get into a pretty good firing position, did nothing until he’d got his shots off, then (weirdly enough) seemed to know exactly where to shoot to kill him on top of the roof.
Bloke in North Dorset
This is a good explanation of the the SS works in these situation. Duties split between SS and local law enforcement and with not good communication between them. If its true, and no reason to doubt it, it was a fuck up waiting to happen.
Secret Service advanced teams would have absolutely pre-scouted the location and identified the building the shooter used as a vulnerable spot in the defense.
Which begs the question, how was this guy still able to climb on the roof and get off a shot?
Based on limited details at this point, IMO, the security breakdown occurred in the middle tier, which would likely include law enforcement who were supposed to be assigned to the area near the outbuildings.
However, like I said this tier is largely dependent on local law enforcement and not the Secret Service. So speculatively, the local LEOs who were supposed to be in the area and make sure no one with a gun climbed up on the roof, f*cked up
It’s strange that today the potato expresses statesman like sympathy and yet on 28th June he said that trump is…
a rapist, a fascist and an outright opponent of democracy who clearly wishes to dismantle the US
Dennis, Inconveniently Noting Reality
It’s strange that today the potato expresses statesman like sympathy and yet on 28th June he said that trump is… a rapist, a fascist and an outright opponent of democracy who clearly wishes to dismantle the US
There is nothing strange about this.
If you genuinely believe Donald Trump is the second coming of Adolph Hitler, and that he is a would-be dictator who represents an existential threat to the Republic, then what you are doing today is mourning the death of Thomas Matthew Crooks, patriot and martyr.
But you see, 99% of the folks that two days ago would assure you that Trump was Hitler, and his election would be the end of the world as we know it, never believed what they were saying. They were posturing for others; puffing themselves up as being more noble, intelligent and virtuous than The Rabble. Now faced with the consequences of their actions, they recoil.
So, if Murphy really meant what he said above, today he nothing more than a coward. If he didn’t mean what he said above, than he’s nothing more than a liar.
Call it the German Surprise: The average German spent years agreeing with Adolph Hitler that The Jews had to go, and then was shocked and horrified when they “discovered” that Hitler meant what he said.
bloke in spain
There’s something else coming out of reports makes one suspicious. Witnesses say of the police(? ) snipers. “They blew his head off” Of course it depends where they were shooting from but anyone who’s shot knows you aim for the centre of mass. A head shot’s far more difficult & there’s every likelihood you’ll miss. As Dennis has said, the range wouldn’t be great. Particularly for a trained marksman. A head shot would imply they were firing from directly on front or directly behind. Or it was intended.
In this situation if the shooter was in a prone position the police sniper who was supposedly behind trump would only have had a head shot, it’s all he could see
Bloke in North Dorset
Can we now officially rename the US ’24 Presidential campaign “The War of Trump’s Ear”?
Bravo, bis, Bravo.
Antoine Scrivener
But where was the grassy knoll?
Steve
Forbes:
Will Surviving Gunfire Be Donald Trump’s Next Appeal To Black Voters?
Shaun Harper
Contributor
I am a diversity, equity and inclusion (DEI) expert
And then one day, for no reason at all, the journos were rounded up and put in camps.
andyf
@Starfish
The police sniper and his backup were on the apex of the roof behind Trump. He was covering the crowd in front of Trump. When the gunman fired he jumped and moved his rifle tripod to engage the gunman who was on an adjacent roof. A headshot would have been all that was available.
Henry
The only reason Trump is still alive is because he turned his head to the right to read the teleprompter – if he had been looking forwards, that bullet would have taken the back of his skull off.
140 yards is not a long distance with a scoped rifle, and Pennsylvania and northeast US is deer hunting country.
Dennis, An Obvious Racist
I am a diversity, equity and inclusion (DEI) expert
There is no such thing as a DEI “expert”. DEI is made-up bullshit designed to place the unqualified in positions of authority. The only expertise Shaun Harper possesses is that of shameless self-promotion.
Harper was a glorified admissions officer until he wormed his way into the higher education racial equality grift, which, to his credit, he’s managed to expand into a Fortune 500 and government agency grift.
bloke in spain
@Starfish.
That’s very much what I said. But having seen the both the video & the shots of security standing over the body, I’m rather curious about something. There is absolutely no sign of blood on the body. Now a head shot from the front from a high velocity rifle is going to enter at the front of the head & exit through the rear. Taking a fair bit of the back of the head with it. It will be a through & through shot. It would be a considerable surprise if security snipers were not using penetrators to defeat body armour. So from a front shot you’d expect to see that t-shirt liberally spattered with blood & brains. Odd that you don’t.
agammamon
>Mohave Greenie
July 14, 2024 at 2:15 pm
The assassin was no run of the mill lefty mouth breather
I’m going to have to disagree – it doesn’t take a lot training to climb a ladder, jog across a roof, bring the rifle up, and then miss from 300 yards.
What it does take is a lack of preparation and familiarity with your gear – probably a PSA blend and a shitty red dot and no training beyond a day or two at the panti-fa ‘training facility’s (ie, the wood’s behind Courtney’s dad’s vacation home).
Agammamon
<bloke in spain
July 14, 2024 at 5:21 pm
Not really. Exit wounds don't normally blow heads up. 'Penetrators' – pretty much all rifle rounds will penetrate all soft armors and AP rounds are just steel-core. They're all non-expanding. Expanding rounds in 5.56/7.62 are pretty much only used in extremely short barreled rifles to make up for the lack of velocity.
Ottokring
Zerohedge early this morning ( they are gone now) had pictures of the dead would be assassin. He had quite a lot of dried blood on his face and his clothes were soaked in claret. It looked as if the SS men had hit him on the back top of the head.
RichardT
Mohave Greenie said:
“ It took a considerable amount of training to come as close as he did. Climb a building, take a few seconds to find an aim point, and get four close shots in rapid succession. Doing this from 300-400 yards required breath training, muscle training and good physical conditioning.”
To hit from 400yards, maybe. To miss from, what was it, 140?, with four shots, not so much. And it took him so long to get into position and take his shot that bystanders had time to alert the police to him.
Steve
Dennis – The only expertise Shaun Harper possesses is that of shameless self-promotion.
Also TDS, because the article is dripping with rage at Trump surviving.
I feel sure this is another “masks off” moment. An American presidential candidate was half an inch away from having his brains explode out of his skull in 4K live TV, and journos are raging that they didn’t get to cover his death.
dearieme
“140 yards is not a long distance with a scoped rifle”
When I was fifteen, when my eyesight was still good, I could hit a tin can at forty yards every time with my father’s .22, using what he called his everyday ammunition and, of course, with no ‘scope.
So I’d fancy my chances of hitting Trump on the chest at 140 yards, especially using Dad’s “high velocity American ammunition” except that I have no experience of allowing for the downwards component of the shot. Maybe I’d still have hit him.
How I would have coped with the tension of shooting at a human I don’t know: perhaps it would make all the difference. Would it to a lunatic or a youth suitably drugged? Dunno.
Bloke in North Dorset
Even a scoped rifle has to be zeroed and as it was his father’s its likely it was zeroed for him.
At 150 yds with the adrenalin pumping I’m surprised he got so close, assuming he was taking a head shot.
Jim
I’m conflicted – either the guys on the roof behind Trump are A***** top notch operatives and managed to locate the gunman’s firing point, get their weapons on target and get off accurate shots within seconds of him opening up (not impossible, one suspects the guys with the guns on the roof are more hired on the basis of ability than the DEI sorts who will have been ‘managing’ this event), or they knew where the fire would be coming from and were waiting for him to open up before returning fire (or had already identified him as a potential shooter but were refused permission to fire until he fired first).
If the former I hope they get medals, if the latter I hope they have good life insurance because no-one responsible is going to want that little story coming out, and they may all die in suspicious circumstances over the next few months.
>Grimsby Dave
July 14, 2024 at 7:37 pm
This your guy?
Absolutely. That shit was hilarious.
philip
The election is now too big to rig. Oddly this helps Biden stay in the race. Who would step up to be marmalised in 2024 when they could wait for 2028?
Jim
“Oddly this helps Biden stay in the race. Who would step up to be marmalised in 2024 when they could wait for 2028?”
That was my thought too. I expect the calls for Biden to step down will die away now, as all the potential beneficiaries of his resignation think ‘I’m on a hiding to nothing here, let the old man go down with the ship. No point in nailing my colours to its mast just as the waves lap over the side’. Biden will find it harder to raise money too as the donors won’t want to chuck more cash into a losing cause.
The Meissen Bison
Grimsby Dave: «This your guy?»
I do find it hard to take seriously when commentators work themselves up into a self-righteous froth against a backdrop of left-leaning anchors while attendant spear-carriers in the studio nod along. When there is unanimity in the studio, hour after hour, day after day, it is reasonable to suppose that this is nothing more than flimsy partisan onanism or political self-abuse for the dim and easily gratified.
Rather than waste time with this, why not get to grips with Brexit and give the Grimsby fishing fleet some support?
Steve
In Stephen King’s The Dead Zone, the populist right wing presidential candidate our author hates is destroyed when he panics during an assassination attempt and tries to use a child as a human shield on camera.
Heh, take that, proto-Trump.
The enraging thing about Trump, to Trump haters, is that he’s instinctively brave. How many 78 year olds, or even 48 year olds, do you reckon could take a bullet and come up with their fist raised?
Being a regular at the indoor range with a decent and zeroed AR-15, I can confirm that a headshot from that distance, shooting prone or seated, is quite possible under ideal conditions; a good AR-15 and sight combo has about 1MoA accuracy, or 1 inch grouping at 100 yards, which is generally better than the majority of shooters can obtain with it (more like 2 inch groupings in my case). One 5.56mm round in your skull will ruin your day. Trump was very fortunate to have it impact basically the only place on his body that it wouldn’t cause at least serious injury.
Go outdoors with a variable wind blowing directly across the shoot line, as I believe was the case yesterday, plus significant heat, and your zero is going to be off. Your first shot will almost certainly miss, and your adjustment is going to have to be hurried as you’ve just attracted the attention of some highly competent gentlemen with very expensive and accurate .300 WinMags who are about to make you difficult to identify by your nearest and dearest.
A torso shot would have been easier, but I suspect it may have been obscured by people in the audience and/or the podium.
That said, the photo from the Secret Service roof position did have a telegraph/electrical pole very close to the line of sight to the gunman’s eventual position which might have obscured their vision. Superb planning by the perp, or dumb luck?
I saw the photo Ottokring referenced – agree it looks like a jacketed round going through the left side and out the back of the neck, more or less what you’d expect from a shot at only a partially exposed head.
bloke in spain
@Steve
Should your god deign to exist, I can see him sitting on a cloud next to Satan watching & discussing yesterday’s event & them pissing themselves laughing. “Nice one Jehov. You really had them there, didn’t you? So near yet so far.”
bloke in spain
Some questions for Dennis if he looks in. There’s some things I’m not understanding. No doubt because I don’t understand the US electoral system.
Typically, our media are running lines like this: Thomas Matthew Crooks: The registered Republican and gun lover who shot Trump
What does “registered Republican” actually mean?
Is this part of the electoral registration process?
Is this for this particular election (the Presidential)? Or how long does it last?
Does being a registered Republican accrue any benefits? Like access to Republican events?
There’s something wrong about this. The media also has him donating money ($15) to a “Democratic grass roots organisation” in ’21. (For a 17 year old college kid from a poor small town, 15 bucks isn’t peanuts.) So that must have been after Jan 6. And it doesn’t really chime with him being a gun nut. But now we have him being a Republican & wanting to off Trump.; So why’d he register as a Republican? It really does look as if he’s tried to assume a particular profile. Oh & the media are now saying there explosives in the car he was driving. That’s not a point weapon, that’s an area weapon. So what’s he got against Republicans, a party he’s registered himself to?
Yeah OK, he must have been a bit doo-lally do have done what he did. But even the insane usually make some sort of logical sense. They aren’t insane to themselves.
bloke in spain
I’m sorry but I don’t trust the media these days. Particularly US media. They’ve got too much form. Extreme right wing gun nut they’ll like. They certainly wouldn’t like left wing extremist terrorist tries to off Republican candidate. Especially when it’s Trump doing the running.
It’s quite common for Dems to pee in the water supply by registering as Republican and voting for a Republican candidate they think is a loser. In Pennsylvania recently , Dr Oz (vapid tv personality) won the Repub nomination instead of David McCormick who was a much more serious contender IMHO, apparently due to lots of Dems registering Repub and voting for him.
Oz then duly lost to Fetterman, but that’s another story.
I’m sure Repubs do the same thing – and remember everyone who joined the Labour party to get Corbyn in as leader?
John
TMB
I do find it hard to take seriously when commentators work themselves up into a self-righteous froth against a backdrop of left-leaning anchors while attendant spear-carriers in the studio nod along.
Make sure never to watch Question Time.
John
On a lighter note does anyone recall an episode from a 60s tv show, possibly U.N.C.L.E., featuring a gunman hired to carry out a fake assassination attempt based on his ability to graze a balloon without bursting it.
The Meissen Bison
John: «Make sure never to watch Question Time.»
You might broaden that to embrace the entire BBC output! Mind you, QT in the time of Robin Day was worth watching.
@Jim: ’one suspects the guys with the guns on the roof are more hired on the basis of ability than the DEI sorts who will have been ‘managing’ this event’
The female in the Men in Black sunglasses who had to have a couple of tries at holstering her sidearm was the most embarrassing thing I’ve seen so far….
@Hopper: ’Your first shot will almost certainly miss…’
Doesn’t the ‘JFK’ movie make the point that surely your first shot is likely to be your best?
Bloke in North Dorset
Agammamon
July 14, 2024 at 5:39 pm
<bloke in spain
July 14, 2024 at 5:21 pm
Not really. Exit wounds don't normally blow heads up. 'Penetrators' – pretty much all rifle rounds will penetrate all soft armors and AP rounds are just steel-core. They're all non-expanding. Expanding rounds in 5.56/7.62 are pretty much only used in extremely short barreled rifles to make up for the lack of velocity.
For high velocity rounds its the shock wave that does the real damage and can lead to heads exploding and leads to much bigger exit wounds than would be the case if it was just the projectile going through a body. It also cause wider damage to organs and bones.
bloke in spain
@BiND
It’s roughly what I thought. I couldn’t think of any reason a sniper would be using an expanding bullet with a reduced charge behind it. The requirement is accuracy & range not a concern about over penetration.
And I have shot an AK74 type with military ammunition. So I’ve a very good idea what the effects are. And they have considerably less power than a rifle designed for long range accuracy. If it doesn’t hit a major bone, it can still go straight through you.
In passing, no doubt UK media will soon return to the American gun culture perennial. UK’s an exception. There’s considerable gun ownership in Europe. You can legally own handguns here. And a lot of it’s illegal. Few years ago there was all sorts of stuff floating around for sale came out of the former Warsaw pact countries. Weapon like that AK74 could be picked up for 500 quid. You couldn’t give them away. So it’s not the availability of weapons. But I don’t think anyone fetishises them quite like the Yanks. I suspect it’s a reaction to the gun control lobby. You don’t see Europeans going around in Chinese made imitation tactical kit. Europeans just discretely own them. Especially if they live out in the middle of nowhere.
Bloke in Wales
I couldn’t think of any reason a sniper would be using an expanding bullet with a reduced charge behind it. The requirement is accuracy & range not a concern about over penetration.
From my own position of ignorance I wouldn’t be surprised if a sniper looking out for wrong’uns in a crowd would be using frangible bullets to avoid taking out the unfortunates standing behind the target.
bloke in spain
Maybe they do, BiW. The fotos show two rifle armed security on the roof together. One with a high tripod mount. Presumably different types of weapons with different functions
asiaseen
Assassination Rule One: Kill the assassin
Preparatory rule: Establish plausible deniability – in this case, don’t hire a Democrat, find a supposedly Republican shill.
Steve
BiS – I believe something of the sort must have happened. President Trump has more than the ordinary share of good luck
asiaseen
@ Jim
Rule Two of Assassination: assassinate the assassin(s) of the assassin. Think JFK.
Jim
Question for the gun aficionados: is an AR-15 a suitable weapon for the task in question, given the requirements – an accurate shot or shots from a prone position at c. 150 yards? Or would there have been a better choice that could have been made? It seems the gun in question was only purchased very recently, so one assume someone may have chosen it with the events of Saturday in mind.
Interested
@asiaseen
And RFK.
There’s a lot that’s odd about this. Never mind them not covering a roof 150 yds from the podium, how did the bloke get up there?
With a ladder.
How did the ladder get there?
On the roof of his small car?
With him then taking it off the roof and lugging it there?
I am struggling to purchase that.
Did he put it there earlier?
Or did someone else?
Was there not a sweep of the area an hour before Trump arrived?
And two people in different groups saw him up there and alerted the cops as he leopard crawled across the roof two or three minutes before he open fired, and the cops did nothing?
Most peculiar.
I still prefer incompetence but there are… interesting features.
Interested
@Jim
The AR15 is for all practical purposes indistinguishable from the military version, which is good enough for the US military as an infantry weapon.
However, it is a compromise, reflecting the job of an infantry soldier – it’s good for a little bit of suppressive fire, a little bit of distant shooting, a little bit of close quarter battle usage.
It is certainly not the ideal weapon for accuracy or even stopping power – that’s why snipers don’t use them – but it’s clearly good enough, certainly at that sort of range, and will kill you very efficiently if the round hits you in the wrong place.
It may simply be that it was available (I believe it was owned by his father, and if that was the available weapon that was the weapon he was going to use rather than going into a gun shop and trying to buy one, I guess?)
The AR15 is also of course a bête noire for the Democrats and the media, and I believe Trump has been challenged to say that it should be banned from you because of its supposed “assault weapon” characteristics.
The shooter does seem to have made some attempt to adopt an alternate personality with his Republican registration (though this is common tactically over there) and posing with a gun shop T-shirt on, so I suppose it’s also possible that an AR15 had some sort of poetic symbolism in his mind.
But since the contents of his mind were spread all over the roof, we may never know.
It clearly shows the building isn’t that high, and has a sort of flat roofed extension, maybe 8-10 foot high on the side, with about a 5-6 foot step up to the eves of the main building. So he wouldn’t have needed much more than a short folding step ladder to get onto the flat roof, then use the same ladder to get up onto the tin roof that was his firing point.
Interested
@Jim
Still odd that he could take it there in a car and get it out without anyone noticing.
That’s an amazing video on a number of levels, one of them being how fucking obvious it was that he was up there.
Loads of people had noticed, including police officers.
What the actual fuck was going on?
Interested
Here’s one which synchronises the bloke on the roof with Trump’s speech and shows how long he was there before he fired, and how vocally how many people were alerting the cops.
There was a story in the daily mail that the shooter has tried to join his school rifle team but was so hilariously terrible they banned him from coming back because he was considered a danger.
The worst thing about the Trump attempted assassination is that it’s such a missed opportunity that will probably never come up again, especially if the Secret Service tighten procedures and stop messing around now.
Such a missed opportunity (*shakes head*)
We should never forgive the secret service for shouting “Get Down” instead of “Donald Duck!”
Jim
@Interested:
This DM article shows exactly how the shooter got on the roof:
He had a ladder and climbed onto the lower flat roof walkway between the main factory buildings and from there clambered up onto the main building roof that was his final destination (in every sense). The ladder was hidden by a tall tree from prying eyes. I guess its possible he put that in place much earlier rather than trying to do that while everyone else was milling around.
Interested
@Jom
Thanks. Though that explains only the physical ‘how’, not the ‘how the fuck’, and – much more importantly – how he was able to get up there with a rifle and crawl about for at least two minutes with loads of people shouting at the police, ‘Look there’s a fucking bloke up there with a gun!’
I’ve added what I think are some other interesting bits and bobs (of which you’re probably already aware) on the other, newer thread.
And the gunman was conveniently shot very dead, so will never be able to tell who (if anyone) put him up to it.
Just another ‘Lone Gunman’ who wasn’t in any way known to the authorities or in communication with any of them trying to egg him on. /sarc
That image of Trump, bleeding from the ear and holding up a fist, surrounded by the Secret Service and with the Stars and Stripes behind him, is pretty epic. Like the Marines raising the flag on Iwo Jima. Let’s hope it gets him across the line.
Entertaining that they always seem to try to shoot Republican (ex) presidents.
Lefies projecting as usual.
Democrats alleging it was a stunt by Trump himself in 3, 2, 1…
See?
He made me do it!
Jim said:
“wasn’t … any of them trying to egg him on. /sarc”
Well except Biden very publicly egged him on last week:
“we’re done talking about the debate, it’s time to put Trump in a bullseye”
http://www.politico.com/live-updates/2024/07/08/congress/defiant-biden-tells-donors-were-done-with-the-debate-00166834
All the political violence, in Europe and in the US, has come from the Left or ethnic minorities.
“… wishing no ill to Trump …”
At this point the Ely Fire Brigade were called to attend a blazing pair of trousers. A man named locally as “That tosser” somehow escaped injury.
Assassination is almost universally a left-wing tactic. Who was it who said “political powr grows out of the barrel of a gun”?
@ Jim The conspiracy theories about JFK involve a right-wing plot to kill a right-of-centre Democrat (JFK got on well with MacMillan partly because it suited both of them as JFK was leader of the notionally left-wing party in the USA and to the right of Mac who was leaderof the notionally right-of-centre part in the UK and their friendship bolstered each of them against the non-centrists in their own parties) to replace him with a pretty left-of-centre Democrat: an implausible degree of stupidity .
I’ve commented on here before that a Trump assassination would be highly probable. I’m not claiming any great insight as it’s obvious that the deep state has no limits to what they’ll do to stop him becoming POTUS again.
Having had their shot (see what I did there!) and failed, I wonder if they can risk it again? Security will undoubtedly be strengthened around Trump – perhaps even private security if the USSS can’t be trusted to do their jobs correctly.
This does make the likelihood of violence on the street much greater. Previously, useful fuckwits like Antifa and BLM could cause chaos with little to no push back as the right were busy getting on with their lives. Much more likely now that patriots from the right will oppose this action in a very forceful way.
There is talk about rhetoric needing to calm down on both sides. That’s not going to work, because it was primarily coming from one side and it’s so ingrained it can’t be stopped. If you get triggered by the very mention of Trump’s name and think that trying to stop an invasion of immigrant is akin to the holocaust, then clearly you are on a righteous mission and the ends justify the means.
A good hard dose of reality should see the left reap what they have sown.
As an aside, I see that Brendan “Wandering Hands” Cox had popped up to make comment. Along with being a useful tool of the left (not above some rhetoric himself), what is wrong with him that he can’t stop milking the memory of his wife’s murder?
People on the left are really showing their true colours today, aren’t they? When Elon cleans house at Twitter, as a result, it’s going to be a much improved place.
I would have thought if violence is being encouraged anywhere it’s in the writings of a certain Richard Murphy. Who assigns malice to the intentions & actions of everyone else but said Richard Murphy.
Yes, vile indeed.
He is following the “Of course, I don’t condone violence, not me. But he had it coming, wink wink”.
Well Ritchie, you HAVE condoned it. And you condoned every time you watched eggs being thrown at the Conservative Party chairman, or ‘ice cream’ (with concrete innit) being thrown at Nigel Farage or laughed when a thug takes up position outside Jacob Rees-Mogg’s home and screams in the ears his children. OR SAID NOTHING WHEN A CONSERVATIVE MP IS STABBED TO DEATH FOR BEING A CONSERVATIVE MP.
I say guilty.
and what about how the press constantly makes shit up or exaggerates that fascism is just around the corner, hmmm?
This is vile: https://substack.com/@hollymathnerd/note/c-61900080
So this 20 year old Antifa member who donated $15 to the Biden campaign, but is also (for some reason) a “Registered Republican” tried to shoot Trump from an exposed rooftop 130 metres from the candidate.
Yeah. Someone’s lying.
How fortunate that the “shooter” is now dead, so that he can’t be interviewed, tried and imprisoned.
Totally not a patsy.
So, the executions of the Nazi leadership after the Nuremberg trials; justified?
The hanging of the traitor, William Joyce, Lord Haw Haw; justified?
The killing of Osama Bin Laden in Pakistan; justified?
Barack Obama’s drone strikes?
And if any of these are justified, against those who have attacked our state and our democracy, then what about somebody who represents “an existential threat to our democracy”?
Because if you’ve repeated that line, if you cheered when the Colorado State Supreme Court tried to bar him as an insurrectionist, then surely, surely you must applaud the man who shot Donald Trump. Surely you must find his actions justified. Because, if not, you are culpable for this attempted murder.
Apparently he had an AR15, in which case I’m going with the lone nutter theory. Yes, some of the things people have said, including Biden, may have encouraged him but if he’d been pushed or there really was a conspiracy they’d have at least encouraged him to use a hunting rifle as they’d have known a miss, especially one like this, would only aid Trump.
Thanks for that comment, Joe Smith. Very well said. And it’s something I’ve been trying to get across here. The left have a long history of employing both the democratic process & the extra-democratic. We’ve just seen it in France. RN have gone from first to third place in the second stage in the election because the left’s threats to bring violence & chaos to French streets should RN triumph.
And you’ve seen the same thing in the UK. Above the line the Labour Party behaves as a conventional political party. But it’s based on the left’s campaign of hate against anything that isn’t of the left. And yes they are quite happy with violence if it serves their interest. And this is intentional, however much they would deny it.
This is something people on what might be called the right need to understand. You are not going to get into political power unless you understand it. The example is the last government who were in government but not in power. The left were in power.
This was literally CNN’s first attempt at a headline:
Secret Service rushes Trump off stage after he falls at rally
Can’t help but notice how prominently the media are covering that the shooter was a registered Republican. Usually appears in the first sentence. That he donated to a left cause in ’22 sometimes gets mentioned further down. Bearing in mind the 15 bucks donated would be serious donated to an 18 y/o, I’d guess we should follow the money on this one. He’s also now being reported as wearing a t-shirt features graphics of a gun ownership supporting YouTube channel. I’m thinking, if one was about to attempt an assassination & likely expecting to be arrested, one might give thought to the message what one was wearing might send. Or what political party one was registered to.
Can we now officially rename the US ’24 Presidential campaign “The War of Trump’s Ear”?
I imagine that this morning across the breakfast table in the unimpressive Ely end-terrace, Murphy’s eldest son said something like the below to Murphy (in the same vein as his comment about the Dachau visit):
“Dad, if you’d been there, they’d have shot at you”
If someone had taken a shot at Biden there would have been calls for Trump to be arrested.
“Like the Marines raising the flag on Iwo Jima.” But that was a fake, a posed re-enactment of what had happened earlier. Nothing posed about this one, though.
I’ve said for two or three years that “they” would attempt to assassinate Trump.
I’ve even wondered out loud whether the Dems would try to resolve their Biden problem by assassinating him and trying to frame Trump. Too late now, I suppose.
Was the US Secret Service utterly incompetent – not having a couple of men on each relevant rooftop – or was it a plot? God knows. It’s too easy, too lazy, too stupid, to say don’t blame a plot when you could blame incompetence.
And the chaps who couldn’t competently guard the presidential candidate proved competent enough to kill the shooter immediately afterwards. How handy.
My old advice to Americans was “Hold your nose and vote for Trump.” Maybe I should modify that: “Cup your ear and vote for Trump.”
The assassin was no run of the mill lefty mouth breather. It took a considerable amount of training to come as close as he did. Climb a building, take a few seconds to find an aim point, and get four close shots in rapid succession. Doing this from 300-400 yards required breath training, muscle training and good physical conditioning.
The Secret Service was very lax in covering the roof tops around the event. However, the counter fire was quick and spot on.
“The Secret Service was very lax in covering the roof tops around the event. However, the counter fire was quick and spot on.”
Yes
Almost like two different sections were working to separate orders/direction
Standby for ‘citizens patrols’ to ensure Trump stays safe and that the USSS actually does the job it has signally failed to do
Note that Murphy’s statement is simply a variation of the “She brought it on herself by dressing/acting provocatively” justification for rape. Very much par for the course.
A couple of things to note:
When it comes to the Secret Service, never attribute to malign intent when simple incompetence will do. The Secret Service has a long and distinguished record of failing (spectacularly) at its primary mission. This will end up be yet another example of that failure. Trump survived by the grace of God, not because the Secret Service did its job.
The fact that the three buildings – which were about 150 yards from the podium and with clear line of sight – were not cleared is a perfect example of that incompetence. An average shot with a .556, a scope, and a good understanding of elevation and windage could make that shot. I’ve shot scoped rifles at that distance enough to know that shot was not beyond my very average capabilities.
As someone who has never dealt with the Secret Service, but has dealt with the FBI, Dept of Justice attorneys and investigators, IRS auditors, attorneys and CID agents, Dept. of Agriculture CID agents and INS agents, I can state confidently that the best of the best do not go into government service. What government gets is what it can get. Despite the Secret Service (and the FBI, for that matter) continuously selling themselves as some sort of elite, the truth of the matter is far more prosaic: For the most part these individuals are mediocrities. Those who have initiative and independent judgment either leave the job or submit to having that initiative and judgment drilled out of them. They are, first and foremost, bureaucrats. The fact that they carry guns and sometimes get to dress up in camo doesn’t change that essential fact.
“It took a considerable amount of training to come as close as he did. Climb a building, take a few seconds to find an aim point, and get four close shots in rapid succession. Doing this from 300-400 yards required breath training, muscle training and good physical conditioning.”
It wasn’t 300-400 yards, it was about 140. And the gunman had a minimum of several minutes to settle himself on the roof, because at least one bystander spotted him up there for that period of time, and informed the police and Secret Service who did nothing until he opened fire (what a surprise).
In other words they let someone get into a pretty good firing position, did nothing until he’d got his shots off, then (weirdly enough) seemed to know exactly where to shoot to kill him on top of the roof.
This is a good explanation of the the SS works in these situation. Duties split between SS and local law enforcement and with not good communication between them. If its true, and no reason to doubt it, it was a fuck up waiting to happen.
https://x.com/LtTimMcMillan/status/1812383798740324380
It’s strange that today the potato expresses statesman like sympathy and yet on 28th June he said that trump is…
a rapist, a fascist and an outright opponent of democracy who clearly wishes to dismantle the US
It’s strange that today the potato expresses statesman like sympathy and yet on 28th June he said that trump is… a rapist, a fascist and an outright opponent of democracy who clearly wishes to dismantle the US
There is nothing strange about this.
If you genuinely believe Donald Trump is the second coming of Adolph Hitler, and that he is a would-be dictator who represents an existential threat to the Republic, then what you are doing today is mourning the death of Thomas Matthew Crooks, patriot and martyr.
But you see, 99% of the folks that two days ago would assure you that Trump was Hitler, and his election would be the end of the world as we know it, never believed what they were saying. They were posturing for others; puffing themselves up as being more noble, intelligent and virtuous than The Rabble. Now faced with the consequences of their actions, they recoil.
So, if Murphy really meant what he said above, today he nothing more than a coward. If he didn’t mean what he said above, than he’s nothing more than a liar.
Call it the German Surprise: The average German spent years agreeing with Adolph Hitler that The Jews had to go, and then was shocked and horrified when they “discovered” that Hitler meant what he said.
There’s something else coming out of reports makes one suspicious. Witnesses say of the police(? ) snipers. “They blew his head off” Of course it depends where they were shooting from but anyone who’s shot knows you aim for the centre of mass. A head shot’s far more difficult & there’s every likelihood you’ll miss. As Dennis has said, the range wouldn’t be great. Particularly for a trained marksman. A head shot would imply they were firing from directly on front or directly behind. Or it was intended.
I’m going with incompetence
https://www.dailywire.com/news/biden-dei-push-in-secret-service-led-to-unqualified-agents-one-of-whom-threw-tampons-at-her-boss-in-unhinged-rage
@BiS
Normally yes, if the target is standing
In this situation if the shooter was in a prone position the police sniper who was supposedly behind trump would only have had a head shot, it’s all he could see
Can we now officially rename the US ’24 Presidential campaign “The War of Trump’s Ear”?
Bravo, bis, Bravo.
But where was the grassy knoll?
Forbes:
Will Surviving Gunfire Be Donald Trump’s Next Appeal To Black Voters?
Shaun Harper
Contributor
I am a diversity, equity and inclusion (DEI) expert
And then one day, for no reason at all, the journos were rounded up and put in camps.
@Starfish
The police sniper and his backup were on the apex of the roof behind Trump. He was covering the crowd in front of Trump. When the gunman fired he jumped and moved his rifle tripod to engage the gunman who was on an adjacent roof. A headshot would have been all that was available.
The only reason Trump is still alive is because he turned his head to the right to read the teleprompter – if he had been looking forwards, that bullet would have taken the back of his skull off.
140 yards is not a long distance with a scoped rifle, and Pennsylvania and northeast US is deer hunting country.
I am a diversity, equity and inclusion (DEI) expert
There is no such thing as a DEI “expert”. DEI is made-up bullshit designed to place the unqualified in positions of authority. The only expertise Shaun Harper possesses is that of shameless self-promotion.
Harper was a glorified admissions officer until he wormed his way into the higher education racial equality grift, which, to his credit, he’s managed to expand into a Fortune 500 and government agency grift.
@Starfish.
That’s very much what I said. But having seen the both the video & the shots of security standing over the body, I’m rather curious about something. There is absolutely no sign of blood on the body. Now a head shot from the front from a high velocity rifle is going to enter at the front of the head & exit through the rear. Taking a fair bit of the back of the head with it. It will be a through & through shot. It would be a considerable surprise if security snipers were not using penetrators to defeat body armour. So from a front shot you’d expect to see that t-shirt liberally spattered with blood & brains. Odd that you don’t.
>Mohave Greenie
July 14, 2024 at 2:15 pm
The assassin was no run of the mill lefty mouth breather
I’m going to have to disagree – it doesn’t take a lot training to climb a ladder, jog across a roof, bring the rifle up, and then miss from 300 yards.
What it does take is a lack of preparation and familiarity with your gear – probably a PSA blend and a shitty red dot and no training beyond a day or two at the panti-fa ‘training facility’s (ie, the wood’s behind Courtney’s dad’s vacation home).
<bloke in spain
July 14, 2024 at 5:21 pm
Not really. Exit wounds don't normally blow heads up. 'Penetrators' – pretty much all rifle rounds will penetrate all soft armors and AP rounds are just steel-core. They're all non-expanding. Expanding rounds in 5.56/7.62 are pretty much only used in extremely short barreled rifles to make up for the lack of velocity.
Zerohedge early this morning ( they are gone now) had pictures of the dead would be assassin. He had quite a lot of dried blood on his face and his clothes were soaked in claret. It looked as if the SS men had hit him on the back top of the head.
Mohave Greenie said:
“ It took a considerable amount of training to come as close as he did. Climb a building, take a few seconds to find an aim point, and get four close shots in rapid succession. Doing this from 300-400 yards required breath training, muscle training and good physical conditioning.”
To hit from 400yards, maybe. To miss from, what was it, 140?, with four shots, not so much. And it took him so long to get into position and take his shot that bystanders had time to alert the police to him.
Dennis – The only expertise Shaun Harper possesses is that of shameless self-promotion.
Also TDS, because the article is dripping with rage at Trump surviving.
I feel sure this is another “masks off” moment. An American presidential candidate was half an inch away from having his brains explode out of his skull in 4K live TV, and journos are raging that they didn’t get to cover his death.
“140 yards is not a long distance with a scoped rifle”
When I was fifteen, when my eyesight was still good, I could hit a tin can at forty yards every time with my father’s .22, using what he called his everyday ammunition and, of course, with no ‘scope.
So I’d fancy my chances of hitting Trump on the chest at 140 yards, especially using Dad’s “high velocity American ammunition” except that I have no experience of allowing for the downwards component of the shot. Maybe I’d still have hit him.
How I would have coped with the tension of shooting at a human I don’t know: perhaps it would make all the difference. Would it to a lunatic or a youth suitably drugged? Dunno.
Even a scoped rifle has to be zeroed and as it was his father’s its likely it was zeroed for him.
At 150 yds with the adrenalin pumping I’m surprised he got so close, assuming he was taking a head shot.
I’m conflicted – either the guys on the roof behind Trump are A***** top notch operatives and managed to locate the gunman’s firing point, get their weapons on target and get off accurate shots within seconds of him opening up (not impossible, one suspects the guys with the guns on the roof are more hired on the basis of ability than the DEI sorts who will have been ‘managing’ this event), or they knew where the fire would be coming from and were waiting for him to open up before returning fire (or had already identified him as a potential shooter but were refused permission to fire until he fired first).
If the former I hope they get medals, if the latter I hope they have good life insurance because no-one responsible is going to want that little story coming out, and they may all die in suspicious circumstances over the next few months.
This your guy?
https://www.msnbc.com/morning-joe/watch/trump-continues-to-joke-about-assault-of-paul-pelosi-197718085570
>Grimsby Dave
July 14, 2024 at 7:37 pm
This your guy?
Absolutely. That shit was hilarious.
The election is now too big to rig. Oddly this helps Biden stay in the race. Who would step up to be marmalised in 2024 when they could wait for 2028?
“Oddly this helps Biden stay in the race. Who would step up to be marmalised in 2024 when they could wait for 2028?”
That was my thought too. I expect the calls for Biden to step down will die away now, as all the potential beneficiaries of his resignation think ‘I’m on a hiding to nothing here, let the old man go down with the ship. No point in nailing my colours to its mast just as the waves lap over the side’. Biden will find it harder to raise money too as the donors won’t want to chuck more cash into a losing cause.
Grimsby Dave: «This your guy?»
I do find it hard to take seriously when commentators work themselves up into a self-righteous froth against a backdrop of left-leaning anchors while attendant spear-carriers in the studio nod along. When there is unanimity in the studio, hour after hour, day after day, it is reasonable to suppose that this is nothing more than flimsy partisan onanism or political self-abuse for the dim and easily gratified.
Rather than waste time with this, why not get to grips with Brexit and give the Grimsby fishing fleet some support?
In Stephen King’s The Dead Zone, the populist right wing presidential candidate our author hates is destroyed when he panics during an assassination attempt and tries to use a child as a human shield on camera.
Heh, take that, proto-Trump.
The enraging thing about Trump, to Trump haters, is that he’s instinctively brave. How many 78 year olds, or even 48 year olds, do you reckon could take a bullet and come up with their fist raised?
Being a regular at the indoor range with a decent and zeroed AR-15, I can confirm that a headshot from that distance, shooting prone or seated, is quite possible under ideal conditions; a good AR-15 and sight combo has about 1MoA accuracy, or 1 inch grouping at 100 yards, which is generally better than the majority of shooters can obtain with it (more like 2 inch groupings in my case). One 5.56mm round in your skull will ruin your day. Trump was very fortunate to have it impact basically the only place on his body that it wouldn’t cause at least serious injury.
Go outdoors with a variable wind blowing directly across the shoot line, as I believe was the case yesterday, plus significant heat, and your zero is going to be off. Your first shot will almost certainly miss, and your adjustment is going to have to be hurried as you’ve just attracted the attention of some highly competent gentlemen with very expensive and accurate .300 WinMags who are about to make you difficult to identify by your nearest and dearest.
A torso shot would have been easier, but I suspect it may have been obscured by people in the audience and/or the podium.
That said, the photo from the Secret Service roof position did have a telegraph/electrical pole very close to the line of sight to the gunman’s eventual position which might have obscured their vision. Superb planning by the perp, or dumb luck?
I saw the photo Ottokring referenced – agree it looks like a jacketed round going through the left side and out the back of the neck, more or less what you’d expect from a shot at only a partially exposed head.
@Steve
Should your god deign to exist, I can see him sitting on a cloud next to Satan watching & discussing yesterday’s event & them pissing themselves laughing. “Nice one Jehov. You really had them there, didn’t you? So near yet so far.”
Some questions for Dennis if he looks in. There’s some things I’m not understanding. No doubt because I don’t understand the US electoral system.
Typically, our media are running lines like this:
Thomas Matthew Crooks: The registered Republican and gun lover who shot Trump
What does “registered Republican” actually mean?
Is this part of the electoral registration process?
Is this for this particular election (the Presidential)? Or how long does it last?
Does being a registered Republican accrue any benefits? Like access to Republican events?
There’s something wrong about this. The media also has him donating money ($15) to a “Democratic grass roots organisation” in ’21. (For a 17 year old college kid from a poor small town, 15 bucks isn’t peanuts.) So that must have been after Jan 6. And it doesn’t really chime with him being a gun nut. But now we have him being a Republican & wanting to off Trump.; So why’d he register as a Republican? It really does look as if he’s tried to assume a particular profile. Oh & the media are now saying there explosives in the car he was driving. That’s not a point weapon, that’s an area weapon. So what’s he got against Republicans, a party he’s registered himself to?
Yeah OK, he must have been a bit doo-lally do have done what he did. But even the insane usually make some sort of logical sense. They aren’t insane to themselves.
I’m sorry but I don’t trust the media these days. Particularly US media. They’ve got too much form. Extreme right wing gun nut they’ll like. They certainly wouldn’t like left wing extremist terrorist tries to off Republican candidate. Especially when it’s Trump doing the running.
BiS: registering as Republican/Dem is the only way to vote for which Republican/Dem candidate will compete in the state in “closed primary” states like Pennsylvania: see https://ballotpedia.org/Primary_elections_in_Pennsylvania
It’s quite common for Dems to pee in the water supply by registering as Republican and voting for a Republican candidate they think is a loser. In Pennsylvania recently , Dr Oz (vapid tv personality) won the Repub nomination instead of David McCormick who was a much more serious contender IMHO, apparently due to lots of Dems registering Repub and voting for him.
Oz then duly lost to Fetterman, but that’s another story.
I’m sure Repubs do the same thing – and remember everyone who joined the Labour party to get Corbyn in as leader?
TMB
I do find it hard to take seriously when commentators work themselves up into a self-righteous froth against a backdrop of left-leaning anchors while attendant spear-carriers in the studio nod along.
Make sure never to watch Question Time.
On a lighter note does anyone recall an episode from a 60s tv show, possibly U.N.C.L.E., featuring a gunman hired to carry out a fake assassination attempt based on his ability to graze a balloon without bursting it.
John: «Make sure never to watch Question Time.»
You might broaden that to embrace the entire BBC output! Mind you, QT in the time of Robin Day was worth watching.
@Jim: ’one suspects the guys with the guns on the roof are more hired on the basis of ability than the DEI sorts who will have been ‘managing’ this event’
The female in the Men in Black sunglasses who had to have a couple of tries at holstering her sidearm was the most embarrassing thing I’ve seen so far….
@Hopper: ’Your first shot will almost certainly miss…’
Doesn’t the ‘JFK’ movie make the point that surely your first shot is likely to be your best?
Agammamon
July 14, 2024 at 5:39 pm
<bloke in spain
July 14, 2024 at 5:21 pm
Not really. Exit wounds don't normally blow heads up. 'Penetrators' – pretty much all rifle rounds will penetrate all soft armors and AP rounds are just steel-core. They're all non-expanding. Expanding rounds in 5.56/7.62 are pretty much only used in extremely short barreled rifles to make up for the lack of velocity.
For high velocity rounds its the shock wave that does the real damage and can lead to heads exploding and leads to much bigger exit wounds than would be the case if it was just the projectile going through a body. It also cause wider damage to organs and bones.
@BiND
It’s roughly what I thought. I couldn’t think of any reason a sniper would be using an expanding bullet with a reduced charge behind it. The requirement is accuracy & range not a concern about over penetration.
And I have shot an AK74 type with military ammunition. So I’ve a very good idea what the effects are. And they have considerably less power than a rifle designed for long range accuracy. If it doesn’t hit a major bone, it can still go straight through you.
In passing, no doubt UK media will soon return to the American gun culture perennial. UK’s an exception. There’s considerable gun ownership in Europe. You can legally own handguns here. And a lot of it’s illegal. Few years ago there was all sorts of stuff floating around for sale came out of the former Warsaw pact countries. Weapon like that AK74 could be picked up for 500 quid. You couldn’t give them away. So it’s not the availability of weapons. But I don’t think anyone fetishises them quite like the Yanks. I suspect it’s a reaction to the gun control lobby. You don’t see Europeans going around in Chinese made imitation tactical kit. Europeans just discretely own them. Especially if they live out in the middle of nowhere.
From my own position of ignorance I wouldn’t be surprised if a sniper looking out for wrong’uns in a crowd would be using frangible bullets to avoid taking out the unfortunates standing behind the target.
Maybe they do, BiW. The fotos show two rifle armed security on the roof together. One with a high tripod mount. Presumably different types of weapons with different functions
Assassination Rule One: Kill the assassin
Preparatory rule: Establish plausible deniability – in this case, don’t hire a Democrat, find a supposedly Republican shill.
BiS – I believe something of the sort must have happened. President Trump has more than the ordinary share of good luck
@ Jim
Rule Two of Assassination: assassinate the assassin(s) of the assassin. Think JFK.
Question for the gun aficionados: is an AR-15 a suitable weapon for the task in question, given the requirements – an accurate shot or shots from a prone position at c. 150 yards? Or would there have been a better choice that could have been made? It seems the gun in question was only purchased very recently, so one assume someone may have chosen it with the events of Saturday in mind.
@asiaseen
And RFK.
There’s a lot that’s odd about this. Never mind them not covering a roof 150 yds from the podium, how did the bloke get up there?
With a ladder.
How did the ladder get there?
On the roof of his small car?
With him then taking it off the roof and lugging it there?
I am struggling to purchase that.
Did he put it there earlier?
Or did someone else?
Was there not a sweep of the area an hour before Trump arrived?
And two people in different groups saw him up there and alerted the cops as he leopard crawled across the roof two or three minutes before he open fired, and the cops did nothing?
Most peculiar.
I still prefer incompetence but there are… interesting features.
@Jim
The AR15 is for all practical purposes indistinguishable from the military version, which is good enough for the US military as an infantry weapon.
However, it is a compromise, reflecting the job of an infantry soldier – it’s good for a little bit of suppressive fire, a little bit of distant shooting, a little bit of close quarter battle usage.
It is certainly not the ideal weapon for accuracy or even stopping power – that’s why snipers don’t use them – but it’s clearly good enough, certainly at that sort of range, and will kill you very efficiently if the round hits you in the wrong place.
It may simply be that it was available (I believe it was owned by his father, and if that was the available weapon that was the weapon he was going to use rather than going into a gun shop and trying to buy one, I guess?)
The AR15 is also of course a bête noire for the Democrats and the media, and I believe Trump has been challenged to say that it should be banned from you because of its supposed “assault weapon” characteristics.
The shooter does seem to have made some attempt to adopt an alternate personality with his Republican registration (though this is common tactically over there) and posing with a gun shop T-shirt on, so I suppose it’s also possible that an AR15 had some sort of poetic symbolism in his mind.
But since the contents of his mind were spread all over the roof, we may never know.
@Interested:
This video shows the shooter on the roof:
https://x.com/DC_Draino/status/1812642041391915384?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1812642041391915384%7Ctwgr%5E84b234b8007af8c45325350ea7f0ca42de003bfd%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.zerohedge.com%2Fpolitical%2Fwatch-new-video-shows-trump-shooter-climbing-roof-people-warning-police
It clearly shows the building isn’t that high, and has a sort of flat roofed extension, maybe 8-10 foot high on the side, with about a 5-6 foot step up to the eves of the main building. So he wouldn’t have needed much more than a short folding step ladder to get onto the flat roof, then use the same ladder to get up onto the tin roof that was his firing point.
@Jim
Still odd that he could take it there in a car and get it out without anyone noticing.
That’s an amazing video on a number of levels, one of them being how fucking obvious it was that he was up there.
Loads of people had noticed, including police officers.
What the actual fuck was going on?
Here’s one which synchronises the bloke on the roof with Trump’s speech and shows how long he was there before he fired, and how vocally how many people were alerting the cops.
This very much doesn’t add up (to me).
https://x.com/themilkbartv/status/1812731727053488418?s=46
There was a story in the daily mail that the shooter has tried to join his school rifle team but was so hilariously terrible they banned him from coming back because he was considered a danger.
The worst thing about the Trump attempted assassination is that it’s such a missed opportunity that will probably never come up again, especially if the Secret Service tighten procedures and stop messing around now.
Such a missed opportunity (*shakes head*)
We should never forgive the secret service for shouting “Get Down” instead of “Donald Duck!”
@Interested:
This DM article shows exactly how the shooter got on the roof:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13635887/trump-shooter-thomas-matthew-crooks-images-roof.html
He had a ladder and climbed onto the lower flat roof walkway between the main factory buildings and from there clambered up onto the main building roof that was his final destination (in every sense). The ladder was hidden by a tall tree from prying eyes. I guess its possible he put that in place much earlier rather than trying to do that while everyone else was milling around.
@Jom
Thanks. Though that explains only the physical ‘how’, not the ‘how the fuck’, and – much more importantly – how he was able to get up there with a rifle and crawl about for at least two minutes with loads of people shouting at the police, ‘Look there’s a fucking bloke up there with a gun!’
I’ve added what I think are some other interesting bits and bobs (of which you’re probably already aware) on the other, newer thread.