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This argument doesn’t work for me, no

Far right using climate crisis as bogeyman to frighten voters and build higher walls
Jonathan Watts
It is no coincidence that ever more extreme politics has come at a time of ever more extreme weather

“Don’t worry about it, no big thing” is what we might call that far right idea about climate change. No, not that it is “far right” to believe that, but that is what the far right – to use the identification beng employed here – seems to believe.

We also have the people demanding that we dismantle civilisation to avoid climate change. Preferably by teatime.

So, which is the more extreme politics? It’s not the far right now, is it?

23 thoughts on “This argument doesn’t work for me, no”

  1. Does he mean the “far right” or the “hard far right” or the BNP or Tommy Robinson or Stephen Christopher Yaxley-Lennon. We have to be specific if we’re to save the planet! No room for error here!

  2. “The story is similar in other countries, where democracy’s failure to deal with the causes of the climate crisis has opened the way for ultranationalists to score points by focusing on the consequences, particularly migration”

    Sure, that sounds reasonable. African and Asian countries only turned into shitholes because of the global warming that we caused, and up until then the inhabitants were happy to stay put and had no desire to migrate to countries with easier jobs, a welfare state, and more social freedom. But now that they do, we need to accept it because we caused the problem in the first place. Yeah, I’m fine with that.

  3. “using climate crisis as bogeyman to frighten voters” has been the left’s MO since at least 1968.

  4. Simon, I would suggest that many / most “African countries and Asian’ countries” were shitholes long before the white man turned up and well before the industrial revolution* kicked into gear, primarily because of their culture. And when they were shown a different (better) way of doing things they resisted it.
    See Zimbabwe, South Africa et al.

    *This being the beginning of the “global warming that we caused” according to the IPCC.

  5. When they use the word “democracy”:

    A disrupted climate and diminished natural world are widening the dividing lines of ideological debate. Left unchecked, this will undermine democracy

    It doesn’t mean the electorate getting to choose how it is governed. By “democracy” they mean the system of governance by unaccountable global elites and the permanent bureaucracy that works for them, such as in the EU or America’s “fortified” elections.

  6. “In the past month alone, more than a thousand hajj pilgrims died of heatstroke and related diseases as temperatures soared to 51.8C in Mecca, Saudi Arabia. Record heat in Delhi and other Indian cities killed at least 176 people, followed soon after by record floods.”

    As a card-carrying member of the Far Right, it didn’t take me more than a couple of minutes to discover that deaths from heat at the Hajj have fallen by 47% since 1982-95. It’s always been very hot there, lots of people have died, but there’s a lot more water stations, misting of the air at the Grand Mosque. Even if gorbal warming has made it more dangerous for pilgrims, human ingenuity has beaten it, and some. In the grand scheme of things, it doesn’t matter.

  7. “… that ever more extreme politics has come at a time of ever more extreme weather…”

    Aha! So extreme politics is causing climate change, not CO2 emissions.

    That’s a relief – we can vote out climate change.

  8. I find it strange that things which are really nothing to do with left and right politically have become the defining issues between them. There is no reason why trans, climate , immigration, intercetionality and globalist nonsense should be linked to individual responsibility (and freedom} versus collectivism (and coercion).

    Progressivism vs conservatism does not equate to left vs right.

  9. I told the kids who were trying to persuade me to vote for the Green candidate not to waste their time as Genghis Khan was way over the political horizon to my left.

    So I’d say you’ve got my politics right Tim.

  10. rhoda klapp:

    Left and right have changed meanings a bit over the years.

    Right used to mean monarchist vs. left being more power to parliament.

    Now right means “we didn’t used to have a rule about this. It’s a stupid rule. Get rid of it.” vs. left means “We need more rules, stupid or not. Especially good if they’re done by non-elected people (because we have more of those than the right).”

  11. @Rhoda

    Trans, climate, immigration, etc. have to be linked to coercion because people wouldn’t accept them otherwise. Those interested in pushing for them are obliged to hitch their wagons up to the “carajus state” group because they fail at persuasion thus need to resort to intimidation. Those in charge of the Carajus State side almost certainly DGAF but will pay lip service to all these minority interests because they create a client base that will vote for them. It doesn’t matter that the minority interests are frequently at odds with each other because they don’t actually matter. Any if you point that out, you’re a fascist.

  12. How rising emissions distort our political ecosystems is not nearly as well understood as the scientific certainty that they are heating our world. Hundreds of academic papers detail the tipping point risks of an anthropologically altered climate, but very few look at the feedbacks on governance and ideology. One thing, however, is certain: all of the world’s systems – biological, physical, economic and political – are coming under more climate stress and the longer this is left unabated, the greater is the likelihood that something will break.

    They are – because of the reaction to ‘Climate Change’ and the fundamental changes being made to Humanity – DIE, Trans , Net Zero, Lockdowns – every one of these policies is clinically insane and unless you have an ideological bias or deep seated perversion then you will find yourself extremely stressed by what they mean for you, especially because as Steve points out, your right to disagree with any of them is being removed.

    Here in Brazil we saw, with the previous, far-right president, Jair Bolsonaro, the extremes that the ancien regime is willing to go to hold on to what it has and to burn what remains of the forest. The return of the left in the guise of President Lula has brought a respite but only slowed the pace of destruction. This is a global story. The climate crisis has pushed the right towards zealotry, and made the left appear timid.

    The Left appear timid? Drag Queen story times , compulsory DIE Seminars and forced impoverishment under ‘Net Zero’ are a ‘timid’ approach? – Maybe I’m thankful these people haven’t found a Pol Pot equivalent. One wonders what they have in mind.

    The latest tremor shook France, where the far right – once a reviled fringe – secured more votes than any other bloc in the first round of voting in a snap parliamentary election. This followed European elections in which mainstream political parties were shaken by the alarming gains of candidates with anti-immigrant, anti-science, pro-Russian agendas.

    As opposed to the alarming gains in the past of anti-native, pro-replacement, anti-democratic, pro-supranationalist and pro- Eternal War agendas? Those candidates? Maybe we need to elect a new people.

    Alleviating this situation requires state intervention and mass redirection of capital towards renewables, heat pumps, electric vehicles, sustainable agriculture and the whole net zero shebang. Just as important is patience, international cooperation and belief in a better future – all of which seem to be in decline.

    We need to suspend democracy in order to save it. Just temporarily, mind you.

    This is gnawing into the roots of conservatism. The Tory party’s traditional instinct to conserve national and natural heritage is being eroded by a neoliberal urge to tear up regulations and exploit every resource to extinction. Rishi Sunak has backtracked on net zero and made North Sea gas and motoring central thrusts of his election campaign.

    If the Tories lose this week, as the opinion polls predict, the party’s hard right will push harder still against climate action. Any success by the Reform party, which is partly funded by climate sceptics, will add to the pressure. If a Farage-isation of British conservatism seems outlandish, consider the fact that the US Republican party also used to consider itself a stout defender of the environment.

    As opposed to Climate lunatics who want to take us back to the stoneage and have the complete support of all the civil service and the mainstream media, including the BBC?

    The climate scientist Michael Mann has identified a “coalition of the unwilling” that knows international cooperation and regulation is the only way to deal with the climate crisis, and so sows dissent, doubt and distraction. As examples, he cites Russia’s use of bot armies, trolls and hackers to get climate activists to fight one another, to dig up private emails, which led to the “Climategate” scandal and damaged Hilary Clinton’s campaign against Trump in 2016, and to seed arguments on social media against carbon pricing in Canada or stir up yellow-vest protest in France.

    Arguably the single greatest liar extant in the field of Climate Science today and that’s who you use as a source?

    The dividing line is far more complex in today’s climate-disrupted, nature-depleted world. Just as important now is the quality of the pie, where the ingredients came from, and the extent to which overconsumption is leading to obesity, cancer, climate instability and global conflict. Put more simply, politics is now a battle between those who want to fix what is broken and those who want to keep breaking. Many on the old left may not be comfortable with this 21st-century dividing line, but this is the issue that will determine the habitability of our world.

    Facing up to that is an essential step in envisaging a better future. It will not be easy while so many other countries are drifting towards hostility, insularity and short-termism. But in the long run, it is the only chance democracy – and, indeed, humanity – has got. Labour’s challenge, should it win, will be enormous.

    Jesus – let’s hope the breakers win – any future as envisaged by this guy will be one of unrelenting toil and bleakness.

    Thanks for posting this Tim. Rare indeed to get someone whose idiocy is on a par with the Sage of Ely but this guy is off the scale.

  13. We can’t avoid climate change, we can only adapt to it. That huge ball of burning hydrogen in the sky is going to keep on doing its thing no matter which puny human is sitting in The Big Seat.

  14. I’m in Jim’s camp. Have any of us ever seen any sign of climate change?
    I currently live near where the Mediterranean joins the Atlantic. On a coast backed by a mountain range. If you were going to see climate change anywhere it would be here. It’s no different from when I was here in the 60s. It’s no different from when the Romans defeated the Carthegenians. Currently we’re in our third year of below average rainfall. The week I moved down here there was more rain than this place had had for 80 years. Note 80 years not ever. Climate is an average over time. Short term is weather.
    Currently we have a water shortage. That’s been caused by the dagos enthusiastically developing the coast without stopping to think about where we’re supposed to get our water from in a dry spell. Not climate change. If the EU coughs up the money, maybe they’ll dam a couple more valleys.

  15. Rhoda,

    “I find it strange that things which are really nothing to do with left and right politically have become the defining issues between them. There is no reason why trans, climate , immigration, intercetionality and globalist nonsense should be linked to individual responsibility (and freedom} versus collectivism (and coercion).”

    Climate is entirely about freedom vs collectivism. If driving all your cars around is going to kill the world, government needs to stop you doing so much of it. If you really just want more collectivism, you’re going to go making it sound a lot worse.

    The rest is just about how parties formed certain alliances historically. Like Labour were losing industrial votes and desperately looked around and found groups that weren’t happy with the country. So, the gays and the ethnic minorities. They also became about the professional classes who generally were not losing jobs or being undercut by immigration, but wanted childcare and cheap Starbucks.

  16. Rhoda – There is no reason why trans, climate , immigration, intercetionality and globalist nonsense should be linked to individual responsibility (and freedom} versus collectivism (and coercion).

    Rilly? Those things are a very effective means of dissolving bourgeois civil society in an acid bath and controlling people’s behaviour, speech and movement.

  17. Well the number and shrillness of claims of extreme weather have increased, doesn’t that count?

  18. Most people don’t like having socialists telling them how to live their lives. Climate Change give socialists an excuse for telling people how to live their lives. Authoritarians like Climate Change, Libertarians don’t, this makes it a political matter that bears no relation to whether it is true or not.

  19. BiND in Lüneburg

    I see that the EU has imposed further tariffs on Chinese EVs. If we really had a climate crises and Net Zero was the solution they should have been welcoming these cheap
    ICE replacements.

    Their actions always betray their words.

  20. Amusingly the local news had a piece on government having to do more to push heat pumps, better rebates, mandate for new builds etc. on the same day they had a story about the most common brand of heat pump installed locally being recalled due to overheating issues

  21. An EU mandate comes into force this week whereby all motor vehicles sold in the EU must have a GPS speed limiter fitted. This also includes EU manufactured vehicles sold in the UK, although it will only be active in Nor’n Iron. For now.

    How the left works: ‘Suggest’ people do something you want them to do. When people don’t do what you want them to do, make it socially unacceptable to not comply with what you want them to do. When people still don’t do what you want them to do, mandate it.

    We will see lots of this in the UK over all areas of daily life, in the next five years.

  22. @BiS,

    Coastal communities can help with water shortage issues by moving to salt water sanitation, as Hong Kong did decades ago. Since salt appears not to affect sewage treatment plants (especially when diluted with water from showers, baths and the laundry – none of which work with saline), salt water sanitation makes a lot of sense, but clearly only near the coast.

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