Labour is right to ditch the winter fuel allowance – it isn’t ‘robbing’ old people
Polly Toynbee
Scrapping the so far universal benefit for millions of pensioners means money can be diverted to those who need it most
Her usual argument – about hospitals, schools etc – is that they must be universal services. Because if something becomes only for the poor then it becomes shit.
That principles change dependent upon politics is evidence that they’re…..
Two words whose proper place is at either end of the known universe. Polly. Principles.
‘how do we create and pay for a national care service staffed by people on the same pay and career path as the NHS?’
Evidently, some ‘benefits’ should be universal and some not.
After due consideration of the facts I have come to the conclusion that the party I have supported all my life is correct.
If it wasn’t for double standards the likes of Polly would be said to have none at all…
Of course if Sunak had introduced this measure she would have hammered out a piece about pensioners huddled through the winter with their dentures chattering.
Since I hit 66 in September, presumably this winter would have been the first time that I would have been eligible for a winter fuel payment. I keep thinking that we are a little overdue for an actual proper winter. Rather than winter fuel payments, wouldn’t a sane energy policy do more good?
“ Because if something becomes only for the poor then it becomes shit.”
The Free Hospital founded in 1828 to provide medical care for the poor, paid for, enlarged due to charitable donation is today the Royal Free Hospital of some renown – and all before the NHS (all box, bang pans) got its hand in it.
People don’t seem to know, all the hospitals the NHS acquired in 1948 were established and built before WWII, in fact most before the 20th Century. In fact there were many more hospitals prior to 1948 than there are today.
By the end of the 19th Century, 75% of the population had private health insurance.
Labour wants your gran to die so they can put up 20 migrants in her house. That’s why Labour just introduced the Winter Death Tax on vulnerable British pensioners.
Shame on Polly for supporting this evil government.
” I keep thinking that we are a little overdue for an actual proper winter. ”
Sadly (from the perspective of wanting to show Net Zero up for what it is, rather than wanting Granny to freeze to death) I doubt we’ll get any really cold winters for a while. The Hunga Tonga volcano eruption in 2022 dumped stupendous amounts of water vapour (an actual greenhouse gas that does what it says on the tin) into the atmosphere and global temperatures have predictably spiked. This effect could rumble on for another 4-5 years until water vapour levels return to long term averages, so one suspects our winters will be largely mild for most of this Labour government. I guess we could still get long periods of mild weather with little wind, which would still stress the renewable generation system pretty hard.
Despite her hypocrisy and inconsistency on the issue, Polly is right: pensioners should not receive winter fuel subsidies, unless on benefits (and, perhaps, not even then). I say that as a pensioner.
Shame on Polly for supporting this evil government.
Shame on Reform for ensuring this evil government was elected and with an impregnable majority.
Theo – lol
The winter fuel payment is a cash transfer, not a service. The only way they could run it into the ground is if the payments fail to go out, like the Rural Payments Agency system back in 2015.
‘I doubt we’ll get any really cold winters for a while’
To me, this winter has actually been quite cold. (For someone who lives in Brisbane, Jim.)
That’s why I was entertained to see an ABC article claiming that it’s actually quite warm!! Of course they didn’t suggest that it might only be temporary.
Bullshit. It was all the work of the previous “conservative” government.
You can’t blame Reform for the fact that Conservative Party has made itself unelectable. I say shame on those who knew that the Tories were basically Labour Lite and didn’t represent them in any way whatsoever but still voted for them anyway.
The thing that Starmer has the greatest reason to fear is his « impregnable majority» which consists of lots of indisciplined and inexperienced backbenchers all prepared to die in a ditch and vote against the government in order to defend their particular special cause.
This is a government which will become spectacularly unpopular very quickly and the splinter groups on the government backbenches will increasingly damage it.
Starmer will wish for Sunak levels of popularity before the year is out. There is nothing that he will be able to improve and still a good few things for him to make worse.
“will become spectacularly unpopular very quickly”
I noticed that on his two-minute trip to Southport (I take it he flew, did he?) Smarmer was accused by a pleb of just wanting a photo opportunity.
My wife noticed that he didn’t speak to the parents but only to the Emergency Services people. So it’s already his policy to keep the Praetorian Guard onside.
What a twit! Why on earth didn’t he advise the King to make the trip? Who the devil wants to see a party politician at a moment like that?
Theo is correct.
If you’re in your 60s you will have worked out which months are colder and can budget accordingly. There are some pensioners who are demented and can’t manage their own cash but there’s a separate benefit system for them.
Even kids have worked this out provided they are not cosseted by living in houses which are at a constant year round melting point of palm oil temperature.
We don’t give pensioners summer holiday payments or money for birthday presents for their grandkids or any other outgoing which varies in cost over the year.
Theo. Does it never occur to you that if all the people voted Tory had voted Reform, you’d now have a Reform government, not Labour. It’s you who voted irresponsibly, not them.
I agree with Theophrastus
“Shame on Reform for ensuring this evil government was elected and with an impregnable majority.”
Yes if only we’d voted Tory we could have avoided this terrible Labour government that has raised taxes, borrowed loads more, spaffed all the money up against the wall, let millions of foreigners into the country, and is dedicated to forcing us to all to heat our homes with unicorn farts. All while allowing Islamists and eco-terrorists to rule the streets. Oh wait………
Steve:
Lol as much as you like. But you cannot with consistency denounce the Labour government as “evil” when your own electoral actions have helped put Labour in power. Actions have consequences: take responsibility for both.
BiS
A Reform government was never likely. If it had been, I would have voted Reform.
Jim
However bad the Tories can be – and they have been very bad – Labour will always be far worse. The ‘Uniparty’ does not exist: Labour and Conservatives are not identical and their policies are never identical. Just look at what Labour has already done…on income thresholds for immigrants, on the national curriculum, on VAT on school fees, on cancelling infrastructure projects, on public sector pay rises…
TMB
You are right that this government will become very unpopular very quickly. However, with a majority of 174, Starmer will be able to contain rebellions more easily than if he had a majority of, say, 25-50.
” The ‘Uniparty’ does not exist: Labour and Conservatives are not identical and their policies are never identical. Just look at what Labour has already done…on income thresholds for immigrants, on the national curriculum, on VAT on school fees, on cancelling infrastructure projects, on public sector pay rises…”
So the Tories are against Net Zero, will reverse mass immigration, will lower taxes to the levels of when they entered power in 2010, will reduce public spending across the board, will stop spaffing billions on an unreformed NHS, and get serious with the Islamists now then?
And as for the national curriculum, last time I looked Drag Queen Hour, Pride Month, and Black History Month all seemed to be pretty universal within the state school sector, I wonder how they got there?
As for cancelling infrastructure, its a shame Labour didn’t cancel that white elephant HS2, they could have saved themselves tens of billions, not had to take pensioners winter fuel allowance away or even raise taxes at all.
What you don’t seem to understand is that the Tories boiling frog tactic is actually more pernicious than the Labour all out assault. Constantly talking about how terrible immigration is, while doing absolutely nothing about it, in fact increasing it massively, is far worse than just opening the doors wide. The former hides the reality from the public and allows it to continue, the latter makes the truth very real and creates a reaction from the public, as we are seeing now. Public revulsion at all the things Labour will do openly and to the max is what will stop them in their tracks. The Tories softly softly, tell lies about which direction you’re going while inching in the opposite direction behaviour is far far worse and for that alone they deserve to be destroyed.
“You are right that this government will become very unpopular very quickly. However, with a majority of 174, Starmer will be able to contain rebellions more easily than if he had a majority of, say, 25-50.”
You don’t get it, its not rebellions in the HoC that Starmer is going to have to deal with, its rebellions out in the real world. What majority does he have out here?
As for cancelling infrastructure, its a shame Labour didn’t cancel that white elephant HS2, they could have saved themselves tens of billions, not had to take pensioners winter fuel allowance away or even raise taxes at all.
I still believe that the principal reason for the non-cancellation of HS2 is that our wonderful Civil Service took its mighty collective intellect into contract negotiations and were comprehensively outsmarted. The keen business acumen of the public sector agreed contract penalties which if triggered would be more expensive than completing the project. And of course, it has the bonus of kicking the can down the road a long, long way before all is found out.
“I still believe that the principal reason for the non-cancellation of HS2 is that our wonderful Civil Service took its mighty collective intellect into contract negotiations and were comprehensively outsmarted. The keen business acumen of the public sector agreed contract penalties which if triggered would be more expensive than completing the project.”
Or were specifically put in there to prevent it being cancelled……..
Jim
1. So the Tories are against Net Zero…etc There are more differences than similarities between Labour and the Tories. They are not equivalent or identical – as is rapidly becoming clear as the Starmer tyranny begins. Which is not to deny that the Tories have failed badly with a broad strategy of continuity Blairism!
2. You don’t get it, its not rebellions in the HoC that Starmer is going to have to deal with, its rebellions out in the real world. What majority does he have out here? TMB was talking about HoC rebellions and I was replying to his insight. Summer rioting by drunken yobs will only strengthen support for the government, if they suppress the rioting firmly.
The winter hand-out invented by Gordon Brown is not a service so limiting it only to the poor will not lead to a degradation of services. The better objection is that it was (and is) an attempt to cover up the inadequacy of the basic state pension.
What Rachel Reeves is planning is an increase in the 100% tax rate on small occupational pensions created by Brown when he introduced the “Pension Credit” – some unfortunate people will suffer an effective tax rate of MORE THAN 100% on their occupational pensions which have already been devalued by inflation under Labour (and, to a lesser extent, Conservative) governments.
After working for more than 50 years – in mostly well-paid employment – and being quite capable of sawing up firewood, I do not need the “Winter Fuel Payment” but I regard the *form* of the withdrawal to be spiteful.