Our resident expert might wish to comment upon this

Prostitution puts women in mortal peril; it is hard to quantify precisely but women in prostitution are many, many times more likely to end up murdered than other women. Femicide Census figures highlight that 47 women involved in prostitution were killed by men in the UK between 2009 and 2023.

Wow, 47 tarts in just 12 years.

Those are rookie numbers.

BiS – I guess pimping ain’t easy after all.

@Steve “Wow, 47 tarts in just 12 years. Those are rookie numbers.”

On average two women are murdered every week. So, over the same 12 years, roughly 1250 such murders. Of which 47 is about 4%.

Seems to me that is consistent with women in prostitution being in greater danger than average.

Apologies for not descending to your depths of levity.

women in prostitution are many, many times more likely to end up murdered than other women.
If the metric is comparing with all other women, very likely. But what sort of women go into prostitution? Pretty well everyone in the industry has failed at everything else they’ve attempted. So you’re preferentially selecting from failures. The terminally stupid, high risk takers, women with drugs problems, emotional problems, mental illness, you name it.

I would doubt many punters would be interested in paying to rape the women, I’m guessing they prefer some level of pretence that the woman is enjoying it “oooh it’s sooo big” etc. Or maybe I’ve been watching the wrong movies

” But what sort of women go into prostitution? Pretty well everyone in the industry has failed at everything else they’ve attempted.”

That usually applies to people who become TEFL teachers

That usually applies to people who become TEFL teachers
And professors of political economics?

Entertaining Julia.

Clearly no bloke should ever go out with a girl!!

Thank you Julia,

Further confirmation that the endemic sexual abuse in much of our country is due to white middle class blokes.

Maaaate!

JuliaM @ 10.16, another example of two tier policing and justice eh………….

BiS – I think of it like this: if you are going to eat a sandwich, you would just enjoy it more if you knew no one had fucked it.

Thank you for proving my point, Steve.

I’m serious, Steve. I’ve had to deal with a lot of the clients. Being a tourist destination, we get a lot of the guys who would only pay for it when they’re well away from their own turf. Holiday treat. It’s certainly contributed to my very low opinion of the “educated” classes. The guy who’s telling me the girl he met in a club a year ago remembers him fondly. She’s probably had similar conversations with 10,000 men in the interval. His sparkling repartee went straight past her because she wasn’t listening to a word of it & wouldn’t have understood it she had. They have no common points of reference for a conversation at all. And she certainly won’t have appreciated his sexual prowess. She was compiling the next day’s shopping list, had had his money & just wanted him get get done whatever he was doing & to be gone. That they can’t work this out for themselves says a great deal about them. And they are exactly the people who can’t handle the girl fucking someone else. Because they can’t face the fact that they do. That’s why they’re the most dangerous clients. They can’t tell the difference between reality & fantasy. You can see where that can lead. And I’d say the majority of Brits coming down here on holiday are to some degree similar.

To compare it to a different industry I wonder about the number of Uber/Lyft/whatever drivers getting killed by fares vs. people who drive other people that they know.

Would you say the rate would be higher or lower? At first glance I would say higher.

Bringing it back to the topic, I suspect that having s*x with strangers does tend to be more dangerous than with people you know, even after controlling for the extra care you would think they would take.

As for the 47 in 12 years? What’s the denominator? How many encounters? What’s the rate?

In 2018 there was a report on Canada’s logging and forestry industry (I’m Canadian so this is somewhat relevant to me):

“Logging and forestry was found to be the most dangerous industry of all, with 11 fatalities and 1,324 claims, and only 48,100 people in the industry (2.8 per cent of employees injured or killed).”

That’s 11 workplace deaths in one year, out of less than 50k people. Admittedly, probably no stabbings. But it sounds a bit more dangerous, doesn’t it?

M,

“That’s 11 workplace deaths in one year, out of less than 50k people. Admittedly, probably no stabbings. But it sounds a bit more dangerous, doesn’t it?”

This is the thing. It’s 4 murders out of something like 72,000 women. Which is a lot higher than average. But it’s still an irrelevant level of risk. There are 3 road deaths per 100,000 people per year, so not much more dangerous to be out on the roads than servicing punters. Riding a motorbike is probably more dangerous, but no-one talks about that.

And what’s the reward? You earn a lot more per hour than working in Poundland.

bloke in spain said:
“The guy who’s telling me the girl he met in a club a year ago remembers him fondly.”
“She was compiling the next day’s shopping list, had had his money & just wanted him to get done whatever he was doing & to be gone. That they can’t work this out for themselves says a great deal about them. And they are exactly the people who can’t handle the girl fucking someone else. Because they can’t face the fact that they do. That’s why they’re the most dangerous clients. They can’t tell the difference between reality & fantasy. You can see where that can lead. And I’d say the majority of Brits coming down here on holiday are to some degree similar.”
“ It’s certainly contributed to my very low opinion of the “educated” classes.”

Good grief, are men really that gormless? Not just occasional ones, but most of them? I can see why you don’t have much faith in people.

“47 women involved in prostitution were killed by men in the UK between 2009 and 2023.”

That statistic is borderline meaningless without the size of the UK sex worker workforce, without comparisons to other dangerous occupations (including rent boys) and without a breakdown for types of prostitution (streetwalkers are very vulnerable; agency whores less so; companion courtesans to the mega-rich on their yachts much less so).

Used to drink at a pub where landlady was ex-prostitute and working girls would drink there as they knew they would be left in peace as there was a strict no business on the premises rule.
Can’t say they were all happy souls but did not fit the description in the article if coerced slaves locked in a room. Many were just trying to make ends meet.

Incidentally there is an old joke about Frankfurt in this.

Why is the red light district right next to the banking quarter?

Because in both professions you get paid a lot of money to screw your clients.

“47 women involved in prostitution were killed by men in the UK between 2009 and 2023.”

Interesting phrasing.
Not “47 women involved in prostitution were killed by men while servicing male clients in the UK between 2009 and 2023.”

Or “while working”…

No. Just killed by men.
So… We’re they killed by their pimp? Jealous boyfriend? Random client? Mugged in the street for their evenings earnings?
Meaningless statistic without more information.

Also from the article:
At least 100 women were killed by a man in 2023.

Maybe we should stop importing lots of foreigners who think that a bit of rapey fun time is acceptable.
See that Ross Kemp interview with two enriching gentlemen in Africa about their attitudes to rape and you can see what class of doctors and engineers we’re importing.

bloke in spain said:
“creating new customers … tends to be taken care of by the girls hang around the bars”

I’ve never knowingly been propositioned by a ‘working girl’ in a bar. In the streets, yes, but they were very obvious about the nature of the transaction on offer (and the potential rewards never seemed worth the risks).

Have I just never been in that sort of bar, or are they too subtle for me to have worked out what was on offer?

You got it Tim. Club girls. Like that place at Vilamoura. Cats isn’t it? 10k might be too low. They’ll try & get alongside every bloke goes in. The conversion rate’s dreadful. At a good time they might snag five in a night. These days more like three. Ghastly job. Soul destroying. Very few of the girls will work clubs but it tells you something about the ones that do.

@RichardT
Good grief, are men really that gormless?
Yeah they are, to various degrees. They have trouble with the equation love leads to sex but sex does not necessarily lead to love. Or in this case even acknowledgement they’re a sentient human being. Which at this point, they’re not that much anyway. The funny thing is, it does seem to hit the “educated” very hard. White Van Man much less so. Different life experience?
Have I just never been in that sort of bar?
The sort of bar (or any venue) is where men are likely to have money & approachable. But they are quite good at reading people. Maybe you don’t put out the right signals.

I’ve always enjoyed the company of working girls. One doesn’t have the “mating game” constantly going on as a background. You can have sensible conversations & even friendships with them. Civilian women are a pain in the arse, most of the time. They all have agendas.

Many were just trying to make ends meet.

Yes, well… fnur fnur

@BiS

I’m surprised by your comment re: gormless punters apparently looking for a romantic connection with the girl. I had assumed that most customers were just looking for a release of sexual tension, a step up from Mrs Palm and her five daughters, perhaps after the missus turned off the tap at home (a position I have some sympathy for).

@Mr Womby
I’ve no doubt it starts out as that. But the amount of guys subsequently believe it was “special” for the girl & not just a paid encounter is phenomenal. For the ones where it’s a once in a while it could be a majority. I remember one Danish guy wrote a glowing tale on an online forum about one his exploits here & how much the other party enjoyed it. He Whatsapped me the next time he was here, wanting to get back in touch with the girl. By a coincidence she was sitting next to me along with her friend. So I showed her his profile picture & asked her if she was interested. She said “I remember him. Horrible fat, sweaty, smelly man tried to cheat me out of 100€. (An untranslatable spanish word!) NO!” Other girl wasn’t interested either.
It’s not really how they think of the girls. It’s how they think of themselves. The amount of middle aged, overweight, balding unattractive men are obsessed with chicas young enough to be their daughters if not their grandaughters is amazing. (“It’s the only sort of girl I would consider!”) Why would one want to be with someone who’s thinking “I can’t wait for this to be over so I can forget about it” I could understand it if they just saw the girl as a sex toy to play with. But that’s not how they see them. You don’t expect deep friendship & affection from the bloke who put up your kitchen cupboards, do you?

It was the foto that did it. He is rather…unique.

@M – “I wonder about the number of Uber/Lyft/whatever drivers getting killed by fares vs. people who drive other people that they know.”

Those statistics seem hard to find, but from https://www.jstor.org/stable/40904871 we find (in the USA) “the homicide rate among U.S. occupations, measured per hundred thousand workers, is the highest for taxi drivers. Taxi drivers face the likelihood of workplace homicide at four times the rate for police and other law enforcement jobs, which are generally perceived as having high workplace risk”

And (also from the USA) from https://carsurance.net/insights/taxi-driver-crime-statistics/ “Taxi drivers face a 30 times greater risk of murder than other professions.”

Both taxi driving and prostitution involve workers going alone to places chosen by their clients. This is ideal for criminals looking for victims. When a society has an anti-prostitution attitude, this amplifies the risk when the prostitute is unable to work openly.

Of course it isn’t Theo. It’s no different from double glazing salesman cold calling. This is business, remember. Behaves like business. There are conversion rates. Ideally (for her) the girl would be seeing clients the entirety of an 8 hour shift. In reality she might see four. The rest of the time’s spent canvassing.
These are clubs. A hotel with a bar. Spain & Portugal has them. As does Germany, the CR & several other countries.
Business plan. I was involved in running a villa. Large house, sauna, bar, swimming pool, massage suite, masseuses, girls, 8 bedrooms, extensive gardens. I got into it by meeting a woman had one. Interested me. I start & run successful businesses, when I can be bothered. So it seemed a fun idea to apply that to this. Optimal pricing. Customers never paid for a drink. You want them drunk so why ration alcohol by price? Drinks cost virtually nothing. And it’s easier to get rid of the customers. You just stop giving them drinks. Selling CONFIDENCE. No twists. No hidden costs. Good advertising. The thing I didn’t allow for is mentioned in a comment above. Everybody in this game has failed at everything else they’ve ever done. They won’t do what is in their best interests let alone yours*. They’ve honed incompetence into an art form. You could stand over them whips & they still wouldn’t do what they’re told. They’re incapable of learning. There’s no doubt one could make a fortune doing this. But most of them barely break even. So I admitted defeat.
All of this is perfectly legal & legit here & in other European countries. It is part of the service industry. It pays taxes.

*Maybe I discovered a new economic law. People value their status more than their earnings. We actually paid the girls a bit more pro rata than other places to get the best ones & they got fed free where normally they’d pay. But to be competitive, the price for the customers was less than the opposition. The house makes less per but more on turnover. The girls were making far more money than elsewhere but they weren’t happy. Because their services were being sold cheaper than the girls up the road. They were working in a “cheap” house. Why were we giving the clients the difference? Why couldn’t they have it?

I wouldn’t know how to go about arranging that online with any confidence in what I was going to get, so presumably meeting the lass in a bar at least gives them some degree of confidence in the product.
There’s good reason not to think that. It’s down to the way a lot of these clubs run. As a business, they sell drinks to customers & rent workspace to girls. The girls don’t work for the club. They pay the club to hustle the customers in its bar. You are the girl’s client.
So you’re pretty well at the mercy of the girls. They’re just indoor street girls with attitude. Since you’re unlikely ever to return, you’ll get whatever they’ll deign to give you after they’ve got your money.
Villa’s are probably your best bet. You get a choice. She’s on a split with the house on your money. The important thing is the villa prospers on return customers. So it has a lot of influence on the service you’ll get. Girls don’t put out get thrown out.
Unless of course you’re one of these Brit tossers to whom young/slim/pretty just like your daughter’s schoolfriend, is the prime imperative. In which case the dead starfish impersonation won’t bother you.