Skip to content

Interesting little question here

Ms Haigh said: “After two years of chaos on our railways under the Conservatives, this is an important step towards fixing our railways and getting the country moving again.

“It will ensure a more reliable service by helping to protect passengers from national strikes, and crucially, it clears the way for vital reform – including modernising outdated working practices – to ensure a better-performing railway for everyone.”

Why would people give up useful little Spnish practices if you’ve just given them the pay raise they were demanding?

12 thoughts on “Interesting little question here”

  1. Those ‘Spanish Practices’ were offered back in the day instead of money (pay rise). I believe the Drivers being given a uniform was one such item, back in the ’50’s, but a lot have been negotiated away over the years and some TOC’s have more than others.

    Drivers on my old TOC haven’t had a pay rise since 2019, and according to the BoE, inflation has been 24% over that time. The increase offered (pretty much the same deal as was floated in May from the Tories) and accepted by ASLEF members, amounts to 14.75% over the same time, so hardly ‘inflation busting’…….

  2. The unions bought and paid for Two Tier Keir, so he’s going to give them exactly what they asked for.

    Sure, this pay round might have no productivity strings attached and be largely a catch up on inflation, but it also sets the foundation for next years pay round, which will be the same.

    Cue 1970’s inflation all over again.

  3. No point asking the question. There is no intention of any reform whatsoever. Everything uttered by Labour politicians since taking office has been a lie.

  4. Addolff,

    “Drivers on my old TOC haven’t had a pay rise since 2019, and according to the BoE, inflation has been 24% over that time. The increase offered (pretty much the same deal as was floated in May from the Tories) and accepted by ASLEF members, amounts to 14.75% over the same time, so hardly ‘inflation busting’…….”

    Ultimately, did the government need to pay it? No, it didn’t. Rail worker pay is at the level it is because they used to be able to hold commuters to ransom. They got a very large chunk of the revenue. As income rose earlier in the century, they took a huge chunk of it, because what else are you going to do but to pay them off?

    But they can’t hold the country to ransom now. Covid and remote work changed that. If they did a permanent strike, they’d run out of money before the commuters were desperate for them to return. Is the pay competitive? Yes, it is, because there isn’t an exodus of ticket staff and train drivers to go drive buses and work in Thomas Cook. This is still the best gig they can get, by some margin, so why pay more?

  5. Marius,

    “There is no intention of any reform whatsoever.”

    What does a former wonk and “policy manager” at Aviva know about railways? Even if she wanted to, she’d be ignorant.

    Most transport companies are run by people who have never worked in anything else. They have a good grip on every aspect of it and know how to improve things.

    What I’d do with railways is to make almost all off-peak fares fixed and do dynamic pricing. Like every other form of transport has for 20 years. Really cheap fares when trains are empty, and milk customers for high demand trains.

    Scrap the ticket offices in all but major stations. You do it online, on the phone, or let the newsagent next door sell tickets and give him a few quid for each. Auction off rural routes that no fucker uses. If any company wants to run Melksham to Chippenham they can have it for a fiver if they want it. Otherwise, we do what Beeching (pbuh) wanted and put on a bus to replace it.

    Or really, just privatise it. But do it properly this time.

  6. WB, a few things.

    There has been dynamic pricing on the railways since before you (i’m guessing a bit here) and I were born – Early Morning Return (Workmens), Weekend Return, Cheap Day Return – Advance Purchase Excursion etc.

    “Scrap the ticket offices in all but major stations”.
    The TOC’s tried that, but unfortunately lots of members of the public made it abundantly clear they wanted to retain ticket offices. Nothing to do with the drivers or anyone else involved in running the railway, so have a go at them.

    “Rail worker pay is at the level it is because they used to be able to hold commuters to ransom.
    I’d suggest you speak to some friends of mine who are not drivers and would question that their allegedly excessive pay is due to them holding commuters to ransom.

    “What does a former wonk and “policy manager” at Aviva know about railways“?
    Now you’re asking the right kind of question, you just need to ask it of central government.

    ” Most transport companies are run by people who have never worked in anything else. They have a good grip on every aspect of it and know how to improve things“.
    Unfortunately not true. (One Train Crew Manager was a Manager at McDonalds and one senior BR Manager was previously head of Health and Safety at a biscuit company). As with most other areas of modern life (policing, local government, central government etc. etc), railway ‘management’ is now predominantly inhabited by those who have been to “Uni”, who have little to no operational experience but have a degree, which means they know all the answers and cannot be told anything.

    From 1995 to 2019 there was no serious industrial action by Drivers on my TOC (one dispute in 2009).
    Then the government got involved………….

  7. Addolff,

    “There has been dynamic pricing on the railways since before you (i’m guessing a bit here) and I were born – Early Morning Return (Workmens), Weekend Return, Cheap Day Return – Advance Purchase Excursion etc.”

    That’s not dynamic pricing. That’s scheduled, same as how airlines and hotels used to be.
    It’s a crude way to price which back in the days before computers was about all we could do.

    “The TOC’s tried that, but unfortunately lots of members of the public made it abundantly clear they wanted to retain ticket offices. Nothing to do with the drivers or anyone else involved in running the railway, so have a go at them.”

    A tiny group of activists. Roughly 1% of the population. Mostly socialists who will oppose any cuts, regardless of whether they are sensible. You should never consult the public on this because you will never get a consultation in favour. You decide what is the right policy and do it.

  8. WB, Ticket prices were higher at times of higher demand. Ergo :Dynamic pricing, trying to manage consumption.
    Whether it was more structured or not is irrelevant – ticket prices were higher during the morning and evening peaks to deter people from travelling at those times.

    And this is a cracker – ” You should never consult the public”.
    OK, so don’t have elections or referenda because the answer they give won’t be what you want it to be………

  9. And this is a cracker – ” You should never consult the public”.
    OK, so don’t have elections or referenda because the answer they give won’t be what you want it to be………

    For (what should be) a private company, it’s the customers that matter not the public. WB is correct, consulting the general public will only ever result in the answer that they want the moon on a stick, for free.

    What proportion of the train customers get to the station, buy their tickets at the ticket office and then get straight on the train?

  10. BiW ‘ 6.31: ” What proportion of the train customers get to the station, buy their tickets at the ticket office and then get straight on the train”?
    I honestly don’t know – the last time I bought a ticket at my local station there were two windows open and a queue at both. But my point was that it wasn’t the train operating companies that wanted the booking offices kept open, they were told to do so by the government…..

    80% of the electorate didn’t vote for Labour, but that is what we have got.

    Perhaps we should stop asking the people what they want anymore.

  11. But my point was that it wasn’t the train operating companies that wanted the booking offices kept open, they were told to do so by the government…..

    Then it’s not necessarily by public demand as per your previous comment, it’s by political interference which may or may not reflect genuine public demand (but most likely the loudest gobshites however few in number)

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *