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Well, could be, yes

A cappuccino can be a really good way of explaining how the economy works.

I should mention at the start of this video that I am not a fan of cappuccinos. Putting milk in coffee is, in my opinion, committing some form of sin. But let’s move on from that and talk about the cappuccino itself.

The cappuccino is a coffee made up of two fundamental components. One is an espresso coffee made by, one would hope, a good barista, or maybe in a good coffee machine, and put in the bottom of the cup.

On top of that is added hot frothy milk and then, if it’s to your taste, you can add some form of sprinkle on top. That can be chocolate, it can be nutmeg, whatever you wish. The point is that those three components together go to make up the cappuccino.

So why do I think that’s a good metaphor for the economy?

Add the bitter dregs of tortured ambition to the taxes levied upon starving babby calves and you’ve got government. Sprinkle with some brown shit to taste.

Yes, works, -ish.

16 thoughts on “Well, could be, yes”

  1. At this point he’s run out of things to write about, so he’s just looking about the room hoping for inspiration.

    There have been a number of songs written that way, but one doesn’t look for logic in a song’s lyrics as the primary attribute of why you like it.

  2. Interestingly this goes back to one of his earlier works ‘ The Curajus State’

    In my opinion it is because the espresso represents the role of government spending in the economy. There is no economic activity that takes place that is not in some way supported by the government. Whether that is simply by providing the legal system that ensures the contract can be fulfilled or whether it is providing the infrastructure that enables the two parties of the contract to come together, or whatever else it might be, the government always has a role in the creation of any form of economic activity.

    An interesting idea – and absolutely vital to understanding his mindset. Because if you start from that outlook then the ratchet is always for the government to do more and exert greater control. After all, the logic goes that if they are responsible for everything that happens, then why not increase the level of responsiblity. Very, very powerful argument. Of course there’s no consideration of concepts like opportunity cost or ‘Crowding out’ – but those are ‘neoliberal concepts’.

    The hot frothy milk is the private sector role in the economic activity that we’re looking at. Again, there is almost no economic activity that takes place inside any economy that does not have a private sector input. Even if we look at something that appears to be very much government related, that is still true. For example, the government will buy in a load of IT services, or it might just be paper, or whatever it is that it requires to make sure that it can deliver its part of a service.

    So together, there will always be a mix of government spending and private sector spending to create an economic activity in the economy.

    And what do the chocolate, or nutmeg, or whatever else represent? Well, in some cases, we do add a bit of froth to whatever it is that is created within the economy. That is particularly true of those things that are subject to excessive advertising. The car that has every bell and whistle on it. The new iPhone that has got every feature that you’ll never look at on it, and whatever else it might be, they’ve got that froth on the top.

    And the froth on the top is deeply confusing to many people, because when they look at the economy as a whole, they think that the froth on the top of the economy is what defines the private sector as being great.

    What they forget is that in practice, underneath any frothy coffee, which is, let’s be blunt, what a cappuccino is, (and if you doubt me, go and check what it is in Welsh, and you’ll find that’s what it is in Welsh) – that frothy coffee is made up of an espresso and hot milk and maybe some sprinkles on the top.

    Obviously this is transparent bollocks on stilts and Indeed our gracious host said after reading chapter 1 of the book he couldn’t fisk the whole thing as it requires enduring hundreds of pages of this kind of stupidity. There’s a good Amazon review of it I’ll dig out.

    Nevertheless for me this is a good key to his mindset. The Cup and the body of Coffee are the state. The Capuccino element is the private sector. The Nutmeg or whatever is those private sector services which have an advertising element. That’s the order in which the government should consider all activity. The state first, the private sector second, and the individual last or not at all.

    My point is a simple one. We have to understand that there is no such thing as a pure private sector economy. There is also no such thing as a pure state sector economy. There is no advantage to either of those things either. It is in the mix of the state and the private that we end up with what is good, and without either of them it is very rare that anything could happen.

    That’s why I find it intensely frustrating to be told that the private sector is always better than the state sector. It isn’t. They must work in combination.

    And it’s why I’ve never been a socialist of the form who believes that everything must be owned by the state as a means of production. Because I don’t see any way in which that works.

    So, cappuccino is a way of describing the mixed economy; the economy in which we all live and work, and which most of the time, most of our politicians will try to ignore, as if it isn’t the thing that they’re actually dealing with, when day in, day out, it’s the mixed economy that meets our needs.

    The cappuccino metaphor will either work for you, or it won’t. I don’t guarantee, either way, what the outcome will be in your case. But if it helps, and it helps explain why putting the two sectors together makes whatever it is that we need, then it’s a useful metaphor. And I believe it works.

    Obviously this was written 13 years ago. Since that point he has called for:

    – The total nationalization of all utilities
    – All companies registered at Companies house (even dissolved ones) to be audited so the necessary tax can be extracted
    – Total seizure of all private savings to fund the Green New Deal
    – An end to all ISAs and pension incentives.

    So this ‘Cappuccino’ is looking rather like a pretty basic Americano from what I see in 2024. However, it is a good insight into the genesis of his ‘thought’ such as it is.

  3. Interestingly this goes back to one of his earlier works ‘ The Curajus State’

    In my opinion it is because the espresso represents the role of government spending in the economy. There is no economic activity that takes place that is not in some way supported by the government. Whether that is simply by providing the legal system that ensures the contract can be fulfilled or whether it is providing the infrastructure that enables the two parties of the contract to come together, or whatever else it might be, the government always has a role in the creation of any form of economic activity.

    An interesting idea – and absolutely vital to understanding his mindset. Because if you start from that outlook then the ratchet is always for the government to do more and exert greater control. After all, the logic goes that if they are responsible for everything that happens, then why not increase the level of responsibility. Very, very powerful argument. Of course there’s no consideration of concepts like opportunity cost or ‘Crowding out’ – but those are ‘neoliberal concepts’.

    The hot frothy milk is the private sector role in the economic activity that we’re looking at. Again, there is almost no economic activity that takes place inside any economy that does not have a private sector input. Even if we look at something that appears to be very much government related, that is still true. For example, the government will buy in a load of IT services, or it might just be paper, or whatever it is that it requires to make sure that it can deliver its part of a service.

    So together, there will always be a mix of government spending and private sector spending to create an economic activity in the economy.

    And what do the chocolate, or nutmeg, or whatever else represent? Well, in some cases, we do add a bit of froth to whatever it is that is created within the economy. That is particularly true of those things that are subject to excessive advertising. The car that has every bell and whistle on it. The new iPhone that has got every feature that you’ll never look at on it, and whatever else it might be, they’ve got that froth on the top.

    And the froth on the top is deeply confusing to many people, because when they look at the economy as a whole, they think that the froth on the top of the economy is what defines the private sector as being great.

    What they forget is that in practice, underneath any frothy coffee, which is, let’s be blunt, what a cappuccino is, (and if you doubt me, go and check what it is in Welsh, and you’ll find that’s what it is in Welsh) – that frothy coffee is made up of an espresso and hot milk and maybe some sprinkles on the top.

    Obviously this is transparent bollocks on stilts and Indeed our gracious host said after reading chapter 1 of the book he couldn’t fisk the whole thing as it requires enduring hundreds of pages of this kind of stupidity. There’s a good Amazon review of it I’ll dig out. Also interesting to note he had an obsession with Iphone features ‘not being used’ even then.

    Nevertheless for me this is a good key to his mindset. The Cup and the body of Coffee are the state. The Capuccino element is the private sector. The Nutmeg or whatever is those private sector services which have an advertising element. That’s the order in which the government should consider all activity. The state first, the private sector second, and the individual last or not at all.

    My point is a simple one. We have to understand that there is no such thing as a pure private sector economy. There is also no such thing as a pure state sector economy. There is no advantage to either of those things either. It is in the mix of the state and the private that we end up with what is good, and without either of them it is very rare that anything could happen.

    That’s why I find it intensely frustrating to be told that the private sector is always better than the state sector. It isn’t. They must work in combination.

    And it’s why I’ve never been a socialist of the form who believes that everything must be owned by the state as a means of production. Because I don’t see any way in which that works.

    So, cappuccino is a way of describing the mixed economy; the economy in which we all live and work, and which most of the time, most of our politicians will try to ignore, as if it isn’t the thing that they’re actually dealing with, when day in, day out, it’s the mixed economy that meets our needs.

    The cappuccino metaphor will either work for you, or it won’t. I don’t guarantee, either way, what the outcome will be in your case. But if it helps, and it helps explain why putting the two sectors together makes whatever it is that we need, then it’s a useful metaphor. And I believe it works.

    Obviously this was written 13 years ago. Since that point he has called for:

    – The total nationalization of all utilities
    – All companies registered at Companies house (even dissolved ones) to be audited so the necessary tax can be extracted
    – Total seizure of all private savings to fund the Green New Deal
    – An end to all ISAs and pension incentives.

    So this ‘Cappuccino’ is looking rather like a pretty basic Americano from what I see in 2024. However, it is a good insight into the genesis of his ‘thought’ such as it is.

  4. Pearls of wisdom for small-state neoliberals (™ Murphy). You are nothing without the state and (oh how I wish!) l’Etat, c’est moi!

    “There is no economic activity that takes place that is not in some way supported by the government. Whether that is simply by providing the legal system that ensures the contract can be fulfilled or whether it is providing the infrastructure that enables the two parties of the contract to come together, or whatever else it might be, the government always has a role in the creation of any form of economic activity.”

  5. I have to assume that his target audience actually needs the description of a cappuccino.

    Handily split into two paragraphs for easier comprehension.

    So why do I think that’s a good metaphor for the economy?

    Answers on a postcard, we’ll draw the winner from a hat next weekend.

  6. “There is no economic activity that takes place that is not in some way supported by the government. Whether that is simply by providing the legal system that ensures the contract can be fulfilled or whether it is providing the infrastructure that enables the two parties of the contract to come together, or whatever else it might be, the government always has a role in the creation of any form of economic activity.”

    None of this, not one bit, requires the state. Do you need to draw up a contract and get it notarized when your neighbor borrows a cup of sugar, to ensure it’s paid back? No.

    At most, the legal system provides lower transaction costs for relative strangers to interact. We see this in the islamic world, where much commercial activity goes through informal networks of merchants known to each other – and so worried about reputation loss or ostracism if they fail to fulfill their obligations.

    Infrastructure? Private toll roads were a thing for centuries. Government-built roads were intended for military use first and foremost, not private use. Private ports, still a thing. The government puts a (unwanted) customs agent in there, to ensure they get their cut of the action, not because they actually run the place.

    Etc.

  7. Bloke in North Dorset

    BraveFart,

    Pearls of wisdom for small-state neoliberals (™ Murphy). You are nothing without the state and (oh how I wish!) l’Etat, c’est moi!

    In Spud’s case shouldn’t that be something like: “Je voudrais être l’État.”?

  8. The cappuccino is a coffee made up of two fundamental components.

    The lack of acknowledgement of the role of water or coffee bean makes this an excellent metaphor for the tuberous world view. The great bulk of the economy, human beings and their preferences, is ignored by the Outrageous State which expects, nay demands, compliance from all and will brook no dissent.

    Rachel Reeves is about to demonstrate what the Laughter Curve can do.

  9. The state’s relationship with the economy is like making love to a beautiful woman…. string ’em along with some half-lies and evasions, probe some deep dark holes, and then hand over all your money.

  10. Arthur: No, it’s ISIHAC he’s aiming for.

    Perhaps the simplest way to understand the economy is a jam roly poly, with the state being the sponge, obviously, which is rolled up neatly to contain the jam, or economy. It would be perfectly possible to unroll the sponge, or state, and scrape out the jam, or economy, which might be strawberry or raspberry, and to replace it with different jam, or private transaction, taken from a second roly poly, perhaps a summer fruit compote or even orange marmalade (although obviously you wouldn’t want to use a thick cut variety as that would have lumps of peel poking out through the sponge, or state).

    But please don’t get bogged done on fruit preserves, the type isn’t important, what you should be concentrating on is the state of the sponge pudding that is important. It will doubtless be damaged and possibly broken in places as a result of the unrolling and scrapping. So where does a useless old pudding come into this? Living in his end terrace in Ely we have….

  11. It all sounds terribly nice, but because the cappucino comes in a cup of fixed size, if the coffee of the state expands then some of the milky froth and the chocolate flakes will fall out of the top. If you shrink the state, there is potential for more of the nice stuff, if you expand the state there isn’t.
    So actually quite a good analogy, just arrived at accidentally.

  12. What about those of us who just want a basic black coffee?

    Clearly a Communist is among us!

    I have my coffee very, very weak. Which is how I prefer my government.

  13. JGH:”summer fruit compote or even orange marmalade (although obviously you wouldn’t want to use a thick cut variety as that would have lumps of peel poking out through the sponge, or state).”

    Indeed I thought Spud had his own brand of marmalade, but of course it said thick cut and I misread it.

  14. @BraveFart quotes: “There is no economic activity that takes place that is not in some way supported by the government. Whether that is simply by providing the legal system that ensures the contract can be fulfilled or whether it is providing the infrastructure that enables the two parties of the contract to come together, or whatever else it might be, the government always has a role in the creation of any form of economic activity”

    Yet the trade in illegal recreational drugs mysteriously continues without government support.

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