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I’m decades out of touch here

So, (step) granddaughter has just passed her driving licence. Wants to buy a car.

She’s, erm, 22? Works, but bits and pieces here and there. Some Tesco shelf-stack, some dance teaching, a bit of performance work as a dancer (tap etc, not exotique).

So, what’s the sensible thing here? That really cheap thing I’ve herd about, an EV trhough employment, isn’t really an option as she’s not, technically I guess, full time employed.

Get the bank to finance a second hand?

She’s not going to drive a £500 banger. So, that’s out.

So, options?

29 thoughts on “I’m decades out of touch here”

  1. She’ll need to think about the extortionate cost of insurance for a first-time driver. It could cost as much as the car for the first year!

  2. If you want something that’s not on its knees, you’re probably looking at £4K+ – and the standard cheap little car is the Kia Picasso or Hyundai i10. At that price, expect something ten years old and with 50K miles on the clock.

    Nothing is anywhere near £500 – the pandemic screwed second hand prices and the EV rush has artificially inflated ‘fairly new’ resale values so cheap cars are rare.

  3. Bloke in North Dorset

    I was really impressed with the 2 seater Smart* car I had for a couple of years. I gave it to my son and he ‘s still having fun it it 4 years on. His wife has even come to like it.

    *What else do you replace a Jag with 🙂

  4. Little old ladies’ cars like the Honda Jazz (any age) or Hyundai i10 (2014+) are safe bets. Very reliable; and cheap to buy, insure, and service. Lots of second-hand ones on the market so no shortage of choice. Aim to spend around £3,500. And as they were driven by little old ladies, they’re in great condition. For a bit of personality, choose a fun colour like red or yellow.

    Electric cars – does she own her own house, with a driveway? I assume not, given her age. So that’s probably a non-starter.

  5. There’s always the bus.

    Seconded.

    Why won’t she be driving a £500 banger?

    My first car was $2000 Toyota banger, in decent shape, but old and ugly. I could afford it on the pittance I was making. It ran and got me to work, and when I could afford it, I upgraded to a newer vehicle. But I am old, and that’s how we did things back then if you didn’t have a rich daddy.

    Nowadays with all the climate crazy rules and EU crap there may be a lack of £500 bangers to be purchased, but a lot of kids these days preemptively turn up their noses at such because I guess the culture as told them they are entitled to better. Or they expect to be provided with better.

    Don’t mind me – I am just a grumpy old woman.

  6. Wants to buy a car

    What’s her budget?

    Actually there’s a lot to be said for £500 bangers and to find one, go to small independent garages locally – not dealerships – but an outfit that services cars and does MOTs and has a few used cars for sale. Find a car that suits, buy it and the mechanics will do the needful to keep the car going for you for yonks. Mechanics are more trustworthy than car salesmen.

  7. 1. No EV. They’re just a liability.

    2. Where is she going to park it overnight?

    3. Budget around 4 grand, go online to look at private sales.

  8. If you are talking the UK here then a James Ruppert’s “Bangerpedia” might be a useful start.
    There are three volumes, each covering a decade.
    The most recent is 2000 – 2010, which may be a good decade to land in.
    These books don’t give you prices, they just rate the goodness with an emphasis on durability and maintenance
    He has been in the business for a long time.

    Available direct from James (proper book, but also cheaper PDF versions )
    https://www.flyscreenqueen.co.uk/special-offers/bangernomics-books.html

    Or on Amazon
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/s?i=stripbooks&rh=p_27%3AJames+Ruppert&s=relevancerank&text=James+Ruppert&ref=dp_byline_sr_book_1

    My (from the opposite side of the world) 2 cents worth would be small KIA / Hyundai Toyota Mazda
    mid to late 2000’s into 20 teens
    Petrol
    No EV’s or even hybrids

    I recently sold (privately) the mother-in-laws 2010 Kia Rio.
    She had it from new, zero problems in 14 years, mint condition, 35,000 km
    NZD 8000 (so about 4k in english) and I suspect I could have got more with patience.
    This was the top end of the market.
    Similar cars going from about 4000 up, but obviously more kms and not mint granny spec

  9. Bloke formerly in Russia

    As has been mentioned the car is almost secondary to insurance. You’re still talking £2k a year being typical for a new driver for a “cheap to insure” honda jazz/small Kia/tiny Peugeot.

    EVs even 2nd hand are too expensive still, despite them being in a glut and headlines about oversupply. A battered old last gen nissan note that will get you a pathetic 50 miles range will still go for £4k. Treat an EV as 3x the milage of an ICE vehicle and you won’t go far wrong – this rule of thumb won’t last as tech is far far better now but for the current low-end 2nd hand market of 5+ year old EVs, 50k miles might as well be 150k in terms of needing to shell out for a new powertrain soon, though of course they’re far cheaper to run and maintain if you can charge at home than a petrol.

  10. Always the first thing to ask.
    The license. A real one or auto only?
    Second. What she going to use it for? Impressing her friends? With someone with a work pattern like her, always worth getting something will carry a load. Useful if an earner comes along requiring carrying stuff or shifting stuff.
    Always think about when things go wrong with it. Not if, will.. Parts easy enough to get & affordable? Know someone to fix it when it does?
    At that age, insurance. How much?
    Something boring & mundane that works is always better than an impressive drive ornament.

  11. It’s a real shame they stopped making estate cars. They were always a good bet. Usually better looked after, serviced etc. Driven by people needed that car. And made you very popular when thing needed moving.

  12. A diesel car from 2005 or earlier should be free of much of the unreliable clutter that later models carry. We find ours copes with our driving pattern – short journeys – rather well though in her shoes I’d probably follow the advice above to get a petrol car from Japan or Korea.

  13. Works, but bits and pieces here and there.

    OK, so what is the parental/grandparental budget? Because employment as described will not buy a used car nor be able to cover the cost of insurance.

  14. Sheºs buying it. £4 to £5k. Tops.

    Insurance, she’s not 18. So looks like £100 a month.#

    Seems to think a DS 3 would suite. Which appears tro be a C3 in posh garb. 8-10 yr old in that price range.

  15. Simplify. Add Lightness.

    Toyota iQ (note; not same as Aygo).
    Engine is under 1 litre so cheap to insure.
    Superbly engineered, packaged and built.
    Reliable and inexpensive to maintain.
    Frugal (60 mpg possible)
    Post financial crash I ran one of these for 3 years and did 67,000 trouble-free cheap miles.
    My daughter has had hers for 4 years; trouble-free and practical.

  16. £100pm insurance, check out the rate for paying up front

    You can save serious money, monthly payments are a loan at ridiculous %, even putting an annual premium on a credit card is often cheaper

  17. If you’re using a diesel for short journeys, dearieme, make sure you give it the odd long run occasionally. Short journeys with the car not getting to full working temperature can clog the particulate filter in the exhaust system & you won’t pass the emission standards of the MOT. A replacement usually isn’t cheap. You need to get the car full working temperature & keep it there for a period. Gives a chance for all the gunge to burn out. I usually give mine 30 -40 km on the autoroute at 100-110 kph in fourth rather than fifth so the revs are up, blow it out quicker. It’s just a problem with diesels. Their systems aren’t really designed for just short uses. It was OK back in the days when emissions were ignored & they just smoked a bit.

  18. If you’re using a diesel for short journeys, dearieme, make sure you give it the odd long run occasionally. Short journeys with the car not getting to full working temperature can clog the particulate filter in the exhaust system

    He did say

    A diesel car from 2005 or earlier should be free of much of the unreliable clutter that later models carry.

    and “particulate filter” was the first thing I thought of for “unreliable clutter”.

  19. Watch out for DS and Citroen. If it has pure tech in the name then it has a cam belt that runs in the engine oil, which, it turns out is a really bad idea. Also Fords with ecoboost engines.

    For the money, Hyundai or Kia. Corsa passable as you’ll get a newer one for the money. Honda and Toyota reliable but tend to rust.

  20. Daughter is a few years younger – still learning to drive – but from what I see and hear:
    – the cautious youngsters drive a Toyota Aygo / Citroen C1 / Peugeot something (apparently they’re all the same underneath, but superficial looks are in that order), sub-1litre engine, basically a shopping trolley;
    – those with better off / more indulgent parents have a Fiat 500, which looks cute and trendy but the engine is only 2 cylinders and still sub-1litre;
    – I bought a Mini Cooper (BMW, not classic) to teach her in, and to my astonishment I’ve apparently got her the coolest thing in the school car park.

    The Mini cost me £700, and I spent £400-odd on getting various niggles sorted, so nearly £1,200 all in; I could have paid that for a supposedly more together one, but I feel a lot more confident having paid the extra to a mechanic I trust than a seller who I don’t.

    I’ve not regretted buying it; reliable, apparently easy to fix when needed, plenty of second hand parts. It’s small enough to drive easily around a city, but also solid enough for dual carriageway or rural roads. I’ve done a 6 hour journey in it, half of which was on motorways, and although it’s noticeably less comfortable for that than my BMW, it’s OK, a lot better than a Micra. And although it’s only 4 cylinders and front-wheel drive (so not a proper car), it’s surprisingly good fun to drive.

    Insurance wise, currently it’s only learner insurance, so relatively cheap, but it was actually a couple of quid less than a Citroen C1. And although I’m a bit nervous about what the insurance will cost once she passes, from a little play around the comparison sites before I bought it, it was only about twenty quid a year more than the C1, and you get a hell of a lot more fun for that.

    The only downside is the road tax, which is over £300 a year, and fuel economy isn’t great, due to it being a fairly old-fashioned 1.6l engine.

    I’ve got the pre-2007 original BMW model with the Brazilian petrol engine, which my rather old-school mechanic says was the right one to get; the later engines look better on paper, much better fuel economy and slightly better acceleration, but that’s only achieved at the cost of a load of gubbins that are liable to go wrong. Get the latest you can find of that model, because they ironed out problems as they went along.

    But your granddaughter is a few years older, so probably different considerations.

  21. I’m fascinated by all this “buying my daughter a car” stuff.

    In my day: “Dad, can I have a motorbike?” Dad: “I don’t know, can you afford it?”

    As I may conceivably have mentioned before, a few school summer holidays of casual labour at our harbour did the trick. Do schoolchildren try to earn money in the summer nowadays? Our offspring used to work in summer holidays and at weekends.

  22. The young lady is buying this for herself. And asking the greybeards what they might know about the subject to inform her…..

  23. Bought my latest car from this place:
    https://www.shottonpartexcentre.co.uk/
    Most cars are in the £2k to £2.5k range. There’ll likely be a dealer in her area in this range. Try to find one with maximum one meaningful MOT failure, if there is one.
    But as others have said, the big deal is the insurance cost, followed by cost of car, and then cost of VED. Might be able to bring it in for under £5k. Will likely need to replace after 2 years by which time insurance will be lower.

  24. A bit late to this party.
    Check what cars have low insurance groups. You can’t just judge by engine size/power. A Citroen C1 can be had in insurance group 1, but the Peugeot 107 and Toyota Aygo which are identical can’t.

    My first car was a 999cc Fiat Panda, bought because it was the only combination of group 1 insurance and being able to fit in it. Even back in 2002 the insurance cost more than the car. But after a year, with a year’s NCB and a lower risk profile, I could then afford to insure a much nicer car. Which was good because the Panda had pretty-much had it after a year.

    Having seen friends buy a more expensive low-power low-insurance car, and then get frustrated with its lack of oomph when, say, attempting to join a motorway, I’m glad I did it the way I did. She should buy something in group 1 purely to get her year’s no-claims that’s cheap enough to throw away after a year. Save the rest of the money to buy something nicer when she can afford to insure it: it’s a lot easier to find a nice car for reasonable money that isn’t in a low insurance group because you’re not competing with people buying their kid’s first car.

    A VW Fox is group 1, can be had for <£1k and will be old enough to predate most of VW's woes. The base petrol Pandas from 2004 on are group 1. Rust issues, but if it's not too visible when buying the chances are it'll last a year before it becomes a liability; powertrains generally ok, electronics very Fiat but the base model has few enough that it isn't the end of the world. Newer Hyundai/Kia generally pretty good, but much more expensive.

  25. All I can advise is, like others, look at the insurance costs which can be huge.

    Otherwise, how about an OnlyFans account. It could build on an existing skill, so maybe providing tutorials on shelf-stacking? Surely more fun!

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