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If only he’d done some reading

Now, I am well aware that this will not be a popular claim on my part, but I’m going to make it nonetheless because if we are to rethink economics in 2025, and how it can deliver for us all, one of the things that we have to do is give up our paranoia about the role of the state.

There is no economy without the state. Those who claim otherwise, and that capitalism is the answer to everything, and that the state is not, are living in cloud-cuckoo land. That’s because, without a state, there are no contracts, there is no enforceable law, there is no property right that can be defined, and therefore there is no claim to it, which is the whole basis on which capitalist thinking is based, and there is no market because there can be no money which is useful in exchange, and everything falls apart.

The Ur-economist actually lays it out. Peace, easy taxes and the tolerable administration of justice….

Sigh.

28 thoughts on “If only he’d done some reading”

  2. Addolff

    Of course, the idea that normal people* could possibly manage to get along and make transactions between themselves without the iron fist of the state to make them play together nicely is never considered.

    *Although I accept that as we have ‘progressed’ from a high trust to society to a low trust society, it is now more likely the state will be needed……..

  3. Jonathan

    There is no economy without the state…That’s because, without a state, there are no contracts, there is no enforceable law, there is no property right that can be defined,

    That depends on the State. Try enforcing property, contract or copyrights outside of the West and – with a very few exceptions – see how it goes…

  4. Van_Patten

    I do find it interesting- not going to kill the thread with a paragraph by paragraph fisking but this is one worth noting:

    We have to, therefore, properly understand the role of politics and the role of the state in 2025. If we are to get the politics that we need to survive and do something more than that, which is to prosper, because we aren’t prospering now. But if we follow the ideas that I’m suggesting, we could, and we will.

    Although Murphy’s penchant for argument meant he wasn’t included in the erstwhile authors of this book, it’s a good summary of the prescription in every area.

    https://manchesteruniversitypress.co.uk/9781526180766/

    I am reading through this now and if I take the first chapter. It talks about UBI (universal basic income) as a replacement for the welfare state. The omission (and the chapter literally makes no mention of it) is any mention of immigration or whether immigrants are eligible for UBI. I know one of the authors and his response was ‘it will be limited to British citizens’ – because of course the public sector is notorious for genuflecting to those of White British origin

    But in every scenario, the remedy is always the same

    – Increased taxes and public spending
    – Expansion of state power
    – A greater role for Trade Unions/ ‘civil society’

    To be frank I think any university commissioning anyone who thinks along the lines of Murphy or ‘Act Now’ needs to have its ability to award degrees rescinded. All Left wingers need to be purged from academia. The role of the state needs to be reduced hugely to that which existed in 1914. Anything else simply prolongs the agony and pain. And the likes of Murphy need to have anything that originates from the taxpayer, however filtered through ‘charities’ and other third sector bodies, removed. Let him do some honest work for a change, rather than spout nonsense on the readers of this blog’s dime.

  5. Grist

    Try enforcing your property rights against the State and see what property rights you actually have…

    HS2 anyone?

  6. Van_Patten

    TMB

    Not wanting to take down the Xmas decorations I did notice that paragraph:

    I’ve already discussed in a video, already produced this year, the difference between economics as a noun, which is a definition, and economics as a verb.

    Economics as an action has become economics of the neoliberal market. And politics has gone the same way.

    Economics as a noun talks about the study of how we achieve the better allocation of resources within our society so that the needs of everyone are met. We fail miserably to do that now.

    In my schoolboy French lessons we’d frequently have to do declension of a verb (apologies if that’s the wrong term – by the 90s grammar was seldom taught outside Latin), so is it

    I economic
    you economic (s) ?

    Is that the idea?

    I know he is retired but the very fact that academia accepted such a person in any teaching role suggests there needs to be MAJOR retrenchment in the university sector. I am talking 30 or 40 institutions for starters,

  7. Bloke in North Dorset

    V_P & TMB,

    I asked ChatGPT about using economy as a verb, it makes interesting reading and points to the way Spud likes to torture the language:

    If I wanted to use the noun economics as a verb how would I conjugate it?

    ChatGPT said:
    ChatGPT
    If you wanted to use the noun economics as a verb, you would have to invent or adapt a new word, as “economics” is not inherently a verb in English. A plausible verb form might be “to economic”, which could mean something like “to manage resources efficiently” or “to apply economic principles.” Here’s how it could be conjugated in standard English verb forms:

    Conjugation of “to economic” (hypothetical verb):
    Base form: economic (e.g., I economic my time wisely.)
    Past tense: economiced (e.g., She economiced her expenses last month.)
    Present participle: economicing (e.g., They are economicing their resources.)
    Past participle: economiced (e.g., He has economiced his budget effectively.)
    Third person singular: economics (e.g., She economics well under pressure.)
    Example Sentences:
    Base form: We need to economic better during the recession.
    Past tense: He economiced by switching to renewable energy.
    Present participle: They are economicing to save for a vacation.
    Third person singular: She economics on everything she buys.
    This is, of course, entirely hypothetical. In reality, English typically uses the verb “to economize” instead, which is already well-established and means “to use resources sparingly or efficiently.” For example:

    We need to economize our spending.

    So I then asked it about Spud’s framing:

    In the sentence “Economics as an action has become economics of the neoliberal market,” the word economics is used as a noun in both instances, referring to a field of study or set of principles. If you’re asking how to make this sentence clearer or transform it to emphasize action, we might need to reframe or rephrase it slightly. Here’s a breakdown:

    “Economics as an action”: Here, you’re metaphorically treating “economics” as an action, which works conceptually but could be clarified.
    “Economics of the neoliberal market”: This refers to the specific type of economics associated with neoliberalism.
    To clarify or emphasize action, you could:
    Introduce a verb like economizing or applying economic principles.
    Specify what “economics as an action” entails.
    Revised Examples:
    “The practice of economics has become shaped by the principles of the neoliberal market.”
    “To economic (as an action) now often aligns with neoliberal market principles.”
    “Economizing in practice has become defined by the neoliberal market’s economics.”
    If you want to emphasize action while keeping your structure, a slight adjustment might work:

    “Economics, when treated as an action, has become the economics of the neoliberal market.”
    Would you like help refining this further?

    And now we have seen Spud as the world’s greatest grammar guru in action.

  8. bloke in spain

    Wonderful to see him denying the existence of the black economy. Considering it’s the only sector of your economy growing at the moment. And in respectable numbers too. It’s reckoned to be at developing nation growth rates, these days.

    Those who claim otherwise, and that capitalism is the answer to everything, and that the state is not, are living in cloud-cuckoo land. That’s because, without a state, there are no contracts, there is no enforceable law, there is no property right that can be defined, and therefore there is no claim to it,

    In the black economy, reputation supplants all that. And very successfully. And far less overheads.

  9. Stonyground

    Isn’t this just another straw man? I don’t know of anyone who advocates abolishing the state altogether. We just need a lot less of it and it needs to be a lot more accountable.

  10. The Meissen Bison

    V_P & BiND

    Perhaps even as we write he is working on expanding his œuvre by penning a Morphology of Political Economy?

  11. Jim

    ” All Left wingers need to be purged from academia”

    I have this idea that the Right should enact a similar trap to the Equality Act, which has been tripping up the Left’s opponents ever since it came in. I would suggest that a ‘Intellectual Equality Act’ be imposed on universities (as a start, I’d want to spread it across the State sector). The political proclivities of all the university staff would have to be in proportion to that of the country as a whole. Any university that failed to meet this criteria would have State funding and accreditation removed.

  12. Van_Patten

    BiND

    That’s tremendous. On AI as far as I am aware he thinks it should be subjected to total state control and may even at times advocate an outright ban to protect employment in the unionised public sector. However, I have no doubt freed of his academic position a post on it will arise later in the month, no doubt linking it to Musk, Trump , ‘Trolls’ , the ‘Far right’ and ‘Neoliberalism’….

  13. jgh in Japan

    To verbify “economics” you need to find a pattern in similar studying-subjects nouns, chemistry, physics, maths, geography. Nouns such as woodworking, cooking, sewing are already formed from a verb, so you de-nounify them to get the noun, but the others are naked nouns, with no verb in sight.

  15. Marius

    It’s reckoned to be at developing nation growth rates, these days.

    Of course. A third world economy for a third world nation. Shame everything still costs as much as Switzerland.

  16. Chris Miller

    Tutto nello Stato, niente al di fuori dello Stato, nulla contro lo Stato.

    Does he have a photo of Benito on his wall alongside Marx and Lenin? They’re all socialists together.

  18. bobby b

    I don’t need a state to enforce my contracts. I have guns. A state just makes the paperwork oppressive.

  19. john77

    Verbum meum pactum
    No a state is not necessary to enforce contracts when one’s reputation is worth more than the cost of any contract.
    Also the Maria Theresa dollar was acceptable (and more so than any local state’s currency) ten thousand miles away from Pressburg or Vienna, so he’s lying about that as well.
    Property rights pre-date the formation of the first state “That’s my sheep/camel – leave it alone”

  20. Bloke on North Dorset

    “ I don’t need a state to enforce my contracts. I have guns. A state just makes the paperwork oppressive.”

    That’s fine until someone comes along with more and bigger guns than you to enforce their reading of the contract.

  22. I sneeze in threes

    I vaguely recall Ayn Rand mentioning one way of voluntary funding government expenditures was by adding a fee on to contracts and so said contacts would then be enforced by the state. No fee no state enforcement.

  23. Tim Worstall

    Not necessary. The commercial courts already cover their costs through court fees. Only the criminal courts require taxation subsidies.

  24. I sneeze in threes

    Tim,
    It wasn’t a method to raise income to cover the cost of the court but to fund the general expenditure of the government.

  27. bloke in spain

    It occurs. You don’t even need people to have an economy, let alone a state. There’s plenty of examples of economies & trade in the natural world. Bees & flowers for a start. There’s a type of fungus lives under forest floors supplies nutrients to trees in exchange for what it needs. Inter-species trade in goods or services is actually quite common in nature. You – the cells in your body – are an example of an extremely complex economy. All multicellular lifeforms are economies in action.

  28. bloke in spain

    Even at the cellular level there’s trade. In every cell there are mitochondria with totally different DNA from the cell assisting its function in exchange for nutrients & a place to live.

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