Why Reform won’t touch Tommy Robinson with a barge pole
The party is unequivocal in its rejection of the convicted criminal, even though he has won the favour of billionaire Elon Musk
No, I’m not on the list of advisors. This is by analogy with back in the Nick Griffin days.
Two reasons:
1) An actual disagreement in theory and practice. What AlBeeb and others call “far right” runs from anyone who thinks markets are a bit of all right through to those who would open extermination camps even if the – brief – inhabitants are differently identified these days. Just as the left runs from those who think that markets are all right in their place through to those itching to get to shoot all the other Commissars in the back of the neck.
There is a point along that spectrum – even either of them – where it’s possible to say “This far and no further”. Now, whether anyone else agrees with this or not Nigel and Tommy are on opposite sides of that line “this far”. Agree with either position, of course, as you wish, but accept the point.
2) The Overton Window still matters. Access to the media matters. Reform has it at present as while it’s stretching that window it’s not outside it – not wholly. Tommy R is outside it. Even if there were full agreement on aims, positions, policies etc (there isn’t) it still wouldn’t be politic to say so publicly. Because that would be outside Overton and that window of media would snap shut. This is not wholly something generated by the “lefty media” either. The general public – to my mind, I’m sure to Nigel’s etc – won’t accept the National Front etc back. Look how the BNP imploded. The EDL doesn’t exist any more. The reason the left throw around claims of fascism is because it works with the general public. Maybe it’s silly, maybe it’s romanticising Cable Sty, or ’39 -’45 or whatever, but it’s fairly wasy to opinion poll actual fascist – economic at least – policies and people quite like them but the word itself is hated. As is the identification.
All a long way of waying that Reform embracing Tommy R might well increase support further to the right. At a huge cost in cutting off support nearer the centre. In a rational calculation it’s just not worth it.
I can see why Farage and Reform don’t want to be associated with Tommy. But slagging him off doesn’t help. Ignore yes. But don’t call him names and make it difficult for those who do like Tommy to be part of Reform.
Not just Tommy but Tice slagging off his supporters as well – we don’t want anything to do with “all of that lot”.
It appears that a Reform is still to keen to be establishment and doesn’t aspire to Trumpian levels of success in being deplorable.
It would be perfectly possible for Farage et al to say While there is no position for TR within reform, unlike the uniparty we do not support the coverup of mass rape and or we expect the justice system to uphold the law.
They could use the whole S____ port tissue of lies to crucify TTK for hypocrisy of they wished- all practical politics
For someone supposed to have acute political antenna, it looks like Farage et al are badly fumbling this ball.
The unfortunate fact of life is that TR and the like were the very first to notice all those Muslims doing mass rape. If Graundiad leaders want to moan about his other nasty opinions, I suggest they need a hard punch to the nose followed by an extended period of starting at their bloodied faces in the mirror 🙁
I’d agree with SBML & JS. And add. The reason people embrace the far-right is there’s no other place for them to go. This was true back in the days of the BNP if you ever actually met any of them. The majority of them weren’t particularly far-right. Certainly not in the sense of dressing up in SS uniforms. They just had opinions that were mainstream in maybe the 60s or 70s but had now been deemed unacceptable. The Overton window had shifted & left them behind. There was a bloke I used to chat with in an Ilford park when walking the dogs was BNP. At the time they were having some electoral success. He’d seen his comfortable middle class area turn into a suburb of Islamabad. And he’s supposed to celebrate this?
If you think the EDL doesn’t exist any more, Tim, you’re entirely mistaken. They’ve just disappeared below the visible horizon. They went defensive. Very tight security, a cell system. They’ve turned themselves into a Resistance. But they can still put boots on the street if they need to.
I think the right need people like that. Learn from the Left. The democratic & the a-democratic. It needs people demonstrate & maybe riot when it can’t get what it wants any other way. That’s how the Left’s always operated. Remember the Poll Tax riots? You think they weren’t orchestrated with the tacit approval of the Labour Party?
The BiS (as he often does) has it.
I think the right need people like that. Learn from the Left. The democratic & the a-democratic. It needs people demonstrate & maybe riot when it can’t get what it wants any other way. That’s how the Left’s always operated. Remember the Poll Tax riots? You think they weren’t orchestrated with the tacit approval of the Labour Party?
Look at the follow-up to the rioting last year. Hope not Hate put legions of SWP fifth columnists, almost certainly using funding either directly from Beijing or through their proxies in the UN/WEF onto the streets as part of ‘spontaneous’ ‘anti-fascist’ demonstrations. Part of the ‘organized riot’ threat was to expose that. This took place with the full support of the Labour party.
BiS said most of what I was going to.
Things have moved further than Farage realises. The “center ground” is largely a myth and chasing it won’t inspire anybody. The BBC will call them names no matter what they do or what policies they have.
Somebody is going to have to carry the flag for the right in the next election. There may not be time for it to be any other party than Reform. I’m not saying they should support he who must not be named, but they need to stop alienating potential support. They could very easily screw things up.
Would Tommy Robinson help grow Reform’s support or shrink it?
The latter, obvs. So it’s not even a hard decision.
Also not a hard decision: refusing to be Elon Musk’s bitch. The current media coverage won’t hurt Nigel in the slightest. Mr Musk is an impressive man in many ways, but he’s also an autistic weirdo who regularly throws childish tantrums on his website, is a foreigner, and a billionaire.
If there’s one thing less popular than Tommy Robinson, it’s billionaires.
I’m with our esteemed host on this one. Also, it’s not an Overton window, its an Overton slit.
The “center ground” is largely a myth and chasing it won’t inspire anybody.
I don’t think there is a center ground any more. You are either woke of you’re not. The left just excludes anyone doesn’t think like them
Joe – Not just Tommy but Tice slagging off his supporters as well – we don’t want anything to do with “all of that lot”.
Yes, this is daft. Never allow the media to gotcha question you into saying you don’t want votes, or agreeing that voters are deplorable.
There’s no benefit to Reform in playing the “let’s you and him fight” game. Train the 16 inch naval artillery on TTK and sniggering Tories instead.
Farage: The man who can’t be bought, even for $100 million.
Starmer: The man who can be bought, for the price of a pair of spectacles and a new suit.
In the bigger picture, Farage has given himself and his party a massive boost by the way he has reacted to Musk here.
As Theophrastus often says on these pages, politics is not about revolutionary idealism, it’s about edging closer to what you want. A lot of us disagreed with him about his preferred way of doing that (voting Conservative at the last election), but the point still stands. I’m glad to see Farage thinking that way too.
Never allow the media to gotcha question you into saying you don’t want votes, or agreeing that voters are deplorable.
Yeah, I think there’s a lot to be said for the no-platforming the no-platformers. The best response is “Whether we agree with them or not they have a right to an opinion & we’re willing to listen to their opinions. We are one nation & nobody should cast into the outer darkness, whatever their opinions. “
It seems to me there’s a bell curve in politics. And if you shift towards the tiny number of hard commies, fascists, randians, libertarians you’re going to lose some of the big votes in the middle.
It was the problem with Corbyn. His vote in 2019 was little more than the people who would vote for a Dalek if you stuck a red rosette on it.
According to the Torygraph, “Musk ‘desperate for attention and spreading lies’, says Starmer”.
Mmm. World’s richest man, also one of the world’s most famous men, partly living at Mar a Lago, now in charge of new, high profile government agency, ‘desperate for attention’.
Yeah, I’ll go with that.
I tell you one thing. This thing is certainly getting some traction. I just got a Whatsapp with a link to an X post re: “Grooming Gangs” from a Bolivian currently up in Holland. Why they should be interested in UK domestic politics…..????
Tim – well said!
And Steve, likewise.
Paul, Somerset: Thank you. Btw, it is interesting how Tommy Robinson supporters like PJF and rupert talk about using violence against those they disagree with…
The bell curve in politics is the basis for Blair’s “triangulation” and the assertion, enthusiastically supported by Theo, that “elections are won from the middle”.
In a FPTP system like ours that results in almost complete political convergence, which is what we see now in the Uniparty. What is significant though is that the Centrist Tories have campaigned right and ruled left, and Labour have campaigned left but end up ruling more right than that. So there’s definitely an electoral market for those right and left messages.
Whether it’s actually possible to rule right or left is another question. The establishment evidently has all the legal powers it needs to prevent ruling right.
That doesn’t mean, of course, that there’s a large population ready to vote for TR.
The problem with the bell curve theory is the presumption there’s a smooth graduation of views from one extreme to the other. But a lot of issues are actually binary. You’re either in one camp or the other. I would think trans-rights is one of those. I suspect net zero is another. So we could be getting a complete fission & two bell curves either side of a virtually empty middle ground.
You think of something like EVS. if your lifestyle accommodates them, you have the driveway to benefit from home charging, you’re in favour & have or will switch to one. If it doesn’t & you don’t, they’re unsatisfactory & you don’t want one. Is there a middle position?
Is there a middle position? No, just as there is no “middle” between blue and red. You get purple. That said, everyone essentially has their own internal coalition of views, some of which are “left”, others “right”, hence socially-conservative, economically socialist “working people”.
I think the triangulators know that there are a whole load of different bell curves that sum to constituency success and parliamentary majority. The Uniparty problem is that between them they’ve decided on a whole bunch of policies in common that are non-negotiable, and therefore the electorate is prevented from voting for alternates.
And so to answer Theo, violence against opponents is what happens when people are disenfranchised in this way. There appears to be no alternative.
BiS:
“But a lot of issues are actually binary. (…) I would think trans-rights is one of those. “
Nicely done!
“ I tell you one thing. This thing is certainly getting some traction. I just got a Whatsapp with a link to an X post re: “Grooming Gangs” from a Bolivian currently up in Holland. Why they should be interested in UK domestic politics…..????”
It provides a salutary lesson of the dangers of uncontrolled immigration and not holding MPs to account.
@ Norman
We know from history – in the UK as well as Germany and Russia, that violence against opponents is *not* confined to situations where people are disenfranchised. And it’s not ancient history as I can remember seeing broken windows and working-class Conserrvatives who had been beaten up.
. . . PJF and rupert talk about using violence against those they disagree with…
Don’t worry Theophrastus, Steve can set his flamethrower lions on my body once Tim cuts it down from my lynching. You’ll be all safe and sound in the pub making plans for Nigel.
A-woooo!
A completely manufactured media storm
I have no doubt that Musk and Frage have discussed this in advance and worked out the play
As others have said support for TR is absolutely not good for Reform and is a stick with which tobeat them by our ‘unboased’ media
On the other hand Musk’s social media asault o n 2TK on this issue is entirely justified and helps Reform too
If this is so obvious to me why isn’t it to the highly paid chatteratti?
Can anyone tell me what is TR’s original sin? What is it that he has done which I might be ashamed of if I’d done it. I know his brand is toxic, but that doesn’t mean a thing these days.
I know he talks common but I’ve seen and heard him embarrass a bunch of MSM types by knowing his subject while they are expecting the interview to be fish in a barrel time. Which it was, but the MSM were the fish.
He’s a white working class male?
It is comedy gold.
Before 2025 started the right thought Musk and Farage were buddies for life.
Now Musk says Farage is not up to the job.
Funny to watch the right argue amongst themselves.
LOL – Comedy gold.
Leave Starmer to rule.
I think child abuse is evil.
I think Starmer was not responsible for threchild grooming.
Child abusers and serial killers can come from any background. And should be punished.
There are child abusers on the far right. And the Holocaust was a massive example of child abuse by the far right.
Have you seen the excerpt from the Dalai Lama interview? Laughing at the idea of more immigration to the UK being a good idea?
And in parallel Farage’s interview where he says that if they alienate the Muslim vote “we lose”…
@ Elon Tusk
Your post seeks to redefine “far right” as comprising two groups: the worst scum (usually considered left-wingers by everyone else) and those with whom you disagree. This is a standard practice by left-wing trolls so we no longer fall for it.
The National SOCIALIST WORKERS party designed the “Holocaust” to murder Jews: it was an attempt at genocide not child abuse.
Farage is a Musk and Trump Cuk.
Farage has not stood up for the UK in realtion to the Trump tariffs on UK USA Trade. These tariffs will rip the UK and EU economies apart. But the so called patriot Farage is too close to Trump to speak up for the UK.
Farage has now become even more of cuk that he let’s Musk humiliate him and does not.respond.
Farage is no friend of the British working class. Reform are just far right Tories with a new lick of paint to cover the rust.
John77 ; The NAZIs were right wing. Hitler said he was right wing in a speech in the twenties.
Mengele was an evil and extreme abuser of children.
John (and VP!), please don’t feed the troll. Even if it is a rather substandard one.
BIW – Stick your fingers in your ears and say na na na not listening.
I’m not that interested in Tommy Robinson, though I also don’t understand how he became the bête noire to so many people; I suspect because ‘Urgh Tommy Robinson’ is a nice shorthand way of saying ‘I’m nice and safe and bien pensant.’
I believe Farage to be a fraud and a twat, though. Getting high on his own supply IMO.
His recent interview where he appeared to accept the inevitability of Islamic victory in the UK made me want to banjax the prick.
I have no doubt that Musk and Frage have discussed this in advance and worked out the play
I suspect similar. Along with The Donald. I’ve said all along Trump & no doubt Musk are poker players. So it’s subterfuge & bluff. I’ve no doubt Trump wants payback for Two Tier & other Labour people’s interference in US politics. Musk no doubt feels the same over the dissing he’s had from the Brit left. It doesn’t cost them anything. Why not have some fun? Stir the shit out of some Brits. If friend Farage benefits, so much the better.
Do you not think it’s amusing? The Tool Maker’s Son taking on the richest man in the world & the guy who’s just gamed himself into the US presidency for the second time. Out of his league doesn’t nearly cover it.
Norman
…the assertion, enthusiastically supported by Theo, that “elections are won from the middle”.
I have never asserted that; and I do not believe that. My position on electability is that, to achieve a Parliamentary majority, a party must present a programme that has broad appeal. Mrs Thatcher (pbuh) achieved that – from the right. Focussing on issues where there’s majority support in the electorate is prudent. Focussing on the centre ground as determined by the Establishment means adopting policies that are actually extreme and irrational – eg nut zero, mass immigration – and so ultimately imprudent electorally.
BIS ; So Farage has deliberately made himself look like a humiliated cuckolded muppet to win more votes?
What is this genius 3 dimensional chess move.
I think you must be snorting brain rotting nonsense.
“I think child abuse is evil.”
Careful now, lets not be too controversial…….
@ Elon Tusk
Mengele was extremely evil, worse even than the grooming gangs but there are no reports of him acting in the same way as them so your attempt to falsely suggest that child abuse is also a right-wing sin fails. To claim that one thing Hitler said once is true in order to defend your lies is ludicrous.
We had become accustomed to a better class of troll. [There is a decently competent one on another site where Tim occasionally writes]