An economically strong Britain, outside the great blocs of the US, the EU and China/Russia, might have had a chance of straddling the differences. In reality, as last week dramatised, it is one of the weakest links. No EU member’s euro-denominated government debt faced the same aggressive sell-off as Britain’s; nowhere were yields driven so high. Brexiters have damned our country.
Nominal yields in a different currency simply are not comparable.
Our problems are entirely caused by successive terrible governments who are hostile to the UK population. On the subject of Brexit, these people would rather trash their own country than have to admit that they were wrong. There is no way that these people would allow Brexit to succeed.
If ever you feel like writing a pamphlet on the theories of Will Hutton how about calling it “The Invisible Urinal: Why Will Hutton keeps pissing in the wind”.
In the last 5 years we’ve had Brexit, Covid, the Ukraine war, and Net Zero. All have had an impact, but blaming just one is myopic (esp if you supported all the others).
Andy F
Spot on – anyone who supported
– DIE
– Net Zero
– The Ukraine War
– COVID lockdowns
Or any combination of is dead in the water as far as critiquing Brexit. Would help if they actually had done anything independent
“ … Brexiters have damned our country.”
The UK joined the EEC in 1973 which would, we were assured, reverse UK’s economic downturn and usher in economic recovery, and advance. By 1979 the UK economy was circling the drain and UK known as the sick man of Europe.
In 2008 and after, the UK economy tanked despite (because?) of EU membership.
The UK’s economic woes are entirely due to mismanagement by people whose aims are political, ideological and in any case who are grossly incompetent.
Membership of the Fourth Reich or not has nothing to do with the case.
Germany and France – Motor of Europe™️ – both in the EU have economies no better than the UK, and in the case of Germany demonstrably worse.
If only we had people in Government who implemented the freedom we gained by Brexit instead of clinging to the rotting, sinking hulk of the EU wallowing in a stagnant economic backwater, and turned outward to the 85% growing global economy outside, and ditched Net Zero, we would be seeing the benefits of Brexit.
Germany and France are hardly thriving economically.
“Germany and France are hardly thriving economically.”
Yes, because like the UK, they are managed Ideologically rather than pragmatically. Germany has the Progressive Green shyte, France the eternal war between the Communists, the Settled Oligarchy, and everybody else.
The countries in the EU that have that pragmatic approach *before* any Ideology seem to be faring much better.
How does government debt work in Eurozone countries ?
Do the individual central banks still sell their own bonds, or did the Greek crisis scupper that ?
Also are other states not allowed the kind of vigilantism that we get in Anglo Saxony ?
The Former Germany is trying to muster the courage to ban their political opposition, because it’s a well known fact that if you trash democracy and make it impossible to make a living, the plebs definitely won’t set fire to your house and kill you:
More than 200 lawyers are calling for the initiation of AfD ban proceedings – all the conditions for this are in place
More than 200 lawyers have sent an open letter to members of the Bundestag and the federal government calling for the initiation of proceedings to ban the AfD. In their opinion, all the conditions for this are in place.
Remember they voted for that Austrian painter? At least he liked Germans, and had some quite effective ideas for civil service reform.
Sick and bloody tired of hearing about Brexit. Since the withdrawal we have had more red tape, record numbers of migrants and fewer opportunities for our own youngsters. In which universe was this ever a sign of success?
Azamino – the universe in which your own government hates you and wants you broke and dead, your children raped and brainwashed, and they think it’s funny.
Ah Azamino… The universe in which Brexit was a bad idea.
But not because of any good reasons… Merely the thought that being a member of the EU actually held the UK establishment back in establishing the Clown World we currently witness.
A thought that would have been utterly ridiculous several years back. But now?….
And I am, like most people here, very definitely not a fan of the EU in its current incarnation.. Long time Wilders voter, big fan of Nexit even..
But you have to wonder… The EU *did* put a brake on the more ..insane.. Spending and Policies in the UK, and both Labour and Conservatives used to complain very bitterly about that..
Now that the brakes are off… well… we read about the results daily here and elsewhere..
@Steve… The orginal article in german is Fun to Read..
Yes they’re trying, but “more research into the possibilities needs to be done”.. ( Gissa Job!!)
Also the current Chief Drongo’s are full well aware of the fact that such a lenghty procedure that might well fail, and would disenfranchise somewhere between 25-35% of the voters, just might have some rather drastic second-order effects.
Not to the point of stating “Are you absolutely bonkers?!!” , but there’s a ( for them ) very healthy recitence there regarding this particular subject.
Since the withdrawal we have had more red tape, record numbers of migrants and fewer opportunities for our own youngsters. In which universe was this ever a sign of success?
Azamino: in case you haven’t been paying attention, so have most of the rest of the EU countries, with France, Germany and Belgium leading the pack. Perhaps leaving the EU doesn’t make us unique, and something else is going on? Just a thought.
reticence dammit..
Those days that “No Editing” is both a blessing and a curse…
“More than 200 lawyers are calling for the initiation of AfD ban proceedings”
Which will create a lot of work for lawyers but I’m sure that’s just a coincidence. What have lawyers got to do with democracy? We wouldn’t pay any attention if 200 janitors called for something to be done, and they make an honest living.
Labour seems to be about to surrender to the EU in an abject deal which I’m sure if the conservatives get back in will claim they can’t undo. We may end up wishing Brexit hadn’t happened
“ In reality, as last week dramatised, it is one of the weakest links. No EU member’s euro-denominated government debt faced the same aggressive sell-off as Britain’s”
How many of those euro-denominated countries recently announced £40bn (or equivalent) of tax rises?
TMB
How about this?….“The Invisible Urinal: Why Woolly Willy keeps pissing in the wind”.
The Julian Jessop comment springs to mind : a budget which shifts 2% of national income from the private sector to the public sector is bound to cause some disruption, especially considering the productivity difference between the two.
On immigration I think the Brits are relaxed about those who come legally on visas stamped ‘no recourse to public funds’. The bothersome ones are the ones that come on little boats, or to claim bennies, or marry cousins, or commit crimes or establish religions. Very few politicians want to separate these groups – it’s either Reform with their nil net policy, or the others with their Richard Coles belief that immigration is always and everywhere a good thing, whichever group, culture, motive and time period.
Which is why we had it about right in the ’30s
BniC – if the great British public votes the Tories back in, it deserves what it gets. It’s like hiring Gary Glitter as a babysitter.
Grikath – idk, I’d rather people weren’t tentatively proposing to cancel democracy in any country.
Martin – lawyers are the priestly caste of the state religion.
“On immigration I think the Brits are relaxed about those who come legally on visas stamped ‘no recourse to public funds”.
Yeah, if they produce a lot, bring no dependents and don’t live in houses or flats. Or use water, or sewage services, or electricity, doctors, schools and the rest of resources which we use too. I could see issuing maybe 250,000 visas a year but not to alien cultures or dodgy religions or folks who bring their homeland politicall issues here.
@ rhoda
250k net immigration probably (almost certainly) wouldn’t be reached if we managed to limit gross immigration to those coming legally with no recourse to public fiunds.
Students who almost all go home – or to America – when they graduate pretty much balance out with those three years earlier and three years later. {Dependants of students are an oxymoron – how does a student support anyone else when he/she isn’t supporting him/herself?]
John77, I was going for 250k gross and hoping it would net out to some low figure, needn’t be zero, could be negative for all I care. No problemtic cultures, no poor people, we have enough of our own.
I was of the impression that some number of students stay. With their dependents, probably. If that isn’t a real problem, fine. If it is, make the unis or other educational outfits responsible. If the student doesn’t go the uni has to pay a fine. After all, it is the unis who want them to come for the outrageous fees they don’t get from UK students. Otherwise it is we who have to endure the (what I’ve learned to call) the externalities.
Anyhow, what seems to be missed in all the crap about stop the boats and smash the gangs is that we the UK issue the visas for legal immigration and this could be reduced at a stroke if there was a will to do so. I assume that will is absent.
Theo – 🙂
Lots on Al Beeb about the ‘crisis’ in NHS hospitals this (every) winter.
No mention of exactly the same thing in France, where 87 hospitals have a declared a ‘Blanc’ emergency due to all the beds being occupied and having sick people on trolleys in the corridors.
But then in BBC/Grauniad world, everything is sooooooo much better in the EU isn’t it?
The Remainers in all parties have no interest in a successful Britain. The weaker the country is, the more likely we are to go crawling back to Brussels with our tails between our legs. Isn’t it a bit too much of a coincidence that we’ve had a run of spectacularly incompetent Prime Ministers, and the one who actually had a reasonable plan was hustled out in six weeks?
It’s not incompetence; it’s deliberate sabotage.
@Grikath – “The universe in which Brexit was a bad idea.”
I always though that Brexit was going to end in failure. Not because it was inherently a bad idea, but because it was supported mainly by people who had a very insular view of the world. A Brexit which produced what has been called “Singapore on Thames” where we go for maximum access to international markets would be a great success. It has been tried in other countries and worked well. But when you start from a national sentiment of closing borders, wanting everything built in Britain, and generally looking down on and distrusting foreigners, you’re never going to get it to work.
@BniC – “We may end up wishing Brexit hadn’t happened”
A Yougov poll in July 2023 (https://d3nkl3psvxxpe9.cloudfront.net/documents/Internal_Brexit_230704.pdf) showed that 9% of people said they thought it was a success, compared to 62% who thought it was a failure. Even among Leave voters, it was 27% vs 33%. We’re probably not going to like it better as we continue to live under a Labour government (who imposed VAT on schooling, contrary to EU regulations which we can now ignore due to Brexit).
@rhoda klapp – “if they produce a lot, bring no dependents and don’t live in houses or flats. Or use water, or sewage services, or electricity, doctors, schools and the rest of resources which we use too.”
What justification is there for such requirements, other than racism or similar, given that there is no objection to British people doing any of that?
I don’t think Brexit has been an economic* success so far, mainly because of the lack of losers’ acceptance in the UK and the desperation of the EU to make it unsuccessful in order to discourage copycats, but it will be at least a decade or two before its real success or otherwise can be assessed. You might have missed the move towards a “Singapore-on-Thames” that was crushed by the Remainer blob.
As for “insular view” and “distrusting foreigners”, that can only have been written by someone with a very limited exposure to Britain and its history, or the rest of the world. If there’s a country on earth more open to foreigners (those prepared to integrate and work) than Britain, I’m struggling to identify it.
* I’ve never understood the obsession with the economic impact of Brexit (mostly arising from the Remain side of the argument and their ‘Project Fear’). From a purely economic viewpoint, Brexit was always going to be a rounding error (whether positive or negative) in comparison with events such as Covid and Ukraine.
And, as anyone who’s been responsible for implementing change in any organisation much larger than a corner shop will know, the initial effects of any significant change are almost always negative, because systems that have been developed to be optimal in the previous environment will not be as good a fit in the new one.