Emmanuel Macron said the future of Europe and its security “cannot be decided in Moscow or in Washington” in a clear criticism of US-Russian talks over Ukraine.
After all, the last time we all went toe to toe it was the Russians and the Americans who won. Yes, yes, plucky little Britain fought alone and all that. But it was really that vast steamroller of the American economy wot won it. Even the Russian army moved in US trucks.
In his televised address to the nation on Wednesday night, the French president called for “long-term support to Ukraine”, which may include “sending European troops to Ukraine” in order to avoid a “fragile ceasefire”.
A peace agreement for Ukraine would be backed “perhaps, by the deployment of European forces”, Mr Macron said. “They won’t go to fight today, they won’t go to fight on the front line, but they would be there once a peace deal is signed, to guarantee it is fully respected.”
Oh. Right.
“but they would be there once a peace deal is signed, to guarantee it is fully respected.”
And what would they do if it wasn’t? Just get on the bus back to France?
These ‘leaders’ are dangerous…….
When Macron was elected and did his long slow march to the podium with the EU anthem playing it sent a shiver down my spine. Here is a man who wants to be Emperor of Europe.
Perhaps he believes that with the might of Europe behind, or perhaps in front of him, he will fair better than Napoleon did against Russia.
He’s doing what all politicians try to do, using a situation to his advantage. He’s just grandstanding for his home audience. Same for TTKs talk of boots on the ground – he’s a shit PM who couldn’t run a whelk stall and he’s hoping Ukraine will be his Falklands moment. It won’t be.
Does anyone know how Trump is going to get his mate to agree to this cease fire and then not provoke provoke someone to opening fire and giving him casus belli to go to war again?
And if I was still serving I’d be resigning right now, not because I don’t agree that’s a worthwhile mission but because I’d be worried about a future Phil Shiner coming after me with lawfare 20 years later because I protected myself against a Russian thug.
“Does anyone know how Trump is going to get his mate to agree to this cease fire and then not provoke provoke someone to opening fire and giving him casus belli to go to war again?”
Probably via bribery. Ie offering to let Russia back into global markets and lift all sanctions etc. Which at the end of the day is probably the best bet to keep Russia quiet – the more it gets pushed into pariah status the more its likely roll the tanks again.
Ultimately there’s only two ways to stop a country invading its neighbours, fight it and beat it so badly it doesn’t fancy doing it again (the Germany/Japan solution) or draw it into co-operation with the rest of the world to such an extent that losing that would be crippling, and/or making it so wealthy its got too much to lose by going to war.
The first solution is off the table with Russia for many reasons, the nukes and history being the obvious ones. So catching flies with honey it has to be…..
Emmanuel Macron said the future of Europe and its security “cannot be decided in Moscow or in Washington
Yes it can, le faggot. The fascist Trump is threatening Europe with peace and there’s nothing you can do about it. Hon hon hon!
The “Falklands moment” – lool.
The thinking seems to be: Maggie Thatcher’s government was unpopular in 1982, had a war, became more popular.
But there’s a few important differences between 2025 and 1982, such as Argentina barely being able to project power 100 miles off its own coastline, the British armed forces being much larger and more formidable in 1982, and the Falklands conflict being a relatively simple and geographically isolated fight that wasn’t going to suck in other countries and escalate to WW3.
Two Tier should worry less about Falklands Moments and worry more about Able Archer moments. If British troops end up staring across minefields at Russians, they won’t be facing demoralised Argie conscripts or low-morale Arab tinpot militaries, and there’s a high chance of insurgency from the Ukrainian side because many of them believe the Stab in the Back narrative.
Today the Speccie and DT have normally reliable people fulminating that Trump has got it all wrong on Ukraine.
They may be right: Trump may have misjudged the situation. But it seems to me the reason he’s cutting out Europe/the EU is that he rightly believes they’re just another manifestation of the Progressive Administrative Blob, determined to obstruct him. He’s right about this.
Rightly or wrongly I think he sees Russia as White Christian, and wants to ally with them against the mozzers, Chinese and grasping Marxist UN ngrs. That’s why I agree with Jim, sanctions will go, and Russia will be re-integrated into world trade.
Collatteral win is the reinstatement of Nordstream. This will crucify EU Net Zero and deprive China and India of some cheap gas. Win. Oh, and making the EU look the irrelevant, powerless pussies they are. Win win.
‘the Falklands conflict being a relatively simple and geographically isolated fight that wasn’t going to suck in other countries and escalate to WW3.’
Yes Steve. You’ll have noted that Maggie gave Hong Kong to the Chinese.
Macron and Starmer. Two cocks sharing a dunghill.
Bboy – damn, yes that’s a good comparison.
Dunno if you’ve been following the Taiwan fretting in the press, but the US government has similarly realised it’s not possible for them to defend Taiwan given that it’s just off the Chinese coast. But neither could China or Russia realistically menace Alaska, Hawaii, Western Europe or Britain.
A lot of this comes down to simple maths.* Courage, skill and planning are important but no substitute for brute numbers. If your enemy is a lot closer to his base of supply than you are, and can throw similar or greater numbers of men, munitions, ships, tanks and planes at the problem, it’s a lot cheaper to just do diplomacy.
*The delusional nature of the UK/EU governments when it comes to war is because these are theatre kids and lawyers. They’ve NEVER been in a fight irl and can’t fucking count.
‘“but they would be there once a peace deal is signed, to guarantee it is fully respected.”
And what would they do if it wasn’t? Just get on the bus back to France?’
And it will be the UKRAINIANS who break it. What does Macron do then?
Europe has gotten into this bizarre situation simply by picking the wrong side in the war. Russia is a significant trading partner. Ukraine is nothing. Europe should have stayed out of it. Or better, tried to be Trump and negotiate a quick end to it.
‘He [Macron] said he would open discussions about extending France’s nuclear umbrella to protect European allies’
So when a Ukrainian guard shoots a Russkie . . . WWIII.
Idiot.
Steve
Agreed.
But China trying to invade and conquer Taiwan would be like the Marianna’s Turkey Shoot in spades. There’s a lot of open water between the two and, since their direction of travel is known, their landing force would be ridiculously vulnerable.
On top of that, China can neither feed nor power itself without large imports. So his base of manufacturing supply might be close, but his raw materials are anything but.
Recusant – it would be a very expensive and bloody proposition for China, and likely spark an immediate global depression.
All parties concerned are better off with the status quo.
I suppose people who want to fight on to the last Ukrainian must be Slavophobes.
Herr Hitler would be proud of them.
A little historical perspective, not entirely on topic.
Neither the Chinese nor the Russian forces have much of a record of travelling well. Remember that russian fleet that took ages to get to Port Arthur and then lasted minutes against the IJN? Ok, that was 1905. But Finland 1939, Hungary 56, Afghanistan, First Chechen (but probably not the last). Black Sea 2022-4. They don’t travel well. They haven’t always done well in home games either.
China? Untested except skirmishes in Vietnam and the border with India which didn’t go well. I personally wonder whether what happens in the rest of the world seems significant to China. I can’t see the return for them in pissing off their customers, but Chinese logic may be different. I suspect their forces are a paper tiger, but I don’t want to find out.
On the other hand, US forces haven’t fought on their own soil for a century and a half. The UK army for the best part of three centuries. Those armies do well on the road. The French? Hmmmm.
Sorry, wandering unconnected thoughts spewed into the keyboard. Oh well.
How would you know if you went insane?
Germany considering how to disrupt restoration of Nord Stream 2 – Bild
Germany is exploring levers to prevent the resumption of Nord Stream 2. The pipeline may allegedly be restarted under an agreement between the US and Russia as part of the settlement of the war in Ukraine, Bild reports.
According to Bild and the Financial Times, secret talks have been going on between representatives of Russia and the United States for several weeks now about American investors buying the damaged Nord Stream 2 pipeline in the Baltic Sea.
Bild’s sources in the German government say that rumors of a deal between the United States and Russia to supply gas to Europe have been circulating for a long time. German government officials say that this is a realistic scenario.
According to the agency, the German government is studying the levers it can use to prevent the return of Nord Stream 2.
“How can we lock ourselves into economic failure, poverty and social unrest forever?” – Der Kuckolds
Sir Arthur Harris did nothing wrong.
I understand that the Soviet plan to base nuclear missiles in Cuba, was a direct response to the USA basing nuclear missiles in eastern Turkey. Fortunately, common sense and reason prevailed, and we didn’t have WWIII. Putting any form of “peacekeeping” troops in Ukraine will, no doubt, provoke a Russian response. Unfortunately, none of the European or British leaders is a Kennedy, and mad Vlad is not a Kruschev. I wonder how many bottles of iodine I can stock?
– How would you know if you went insane?
Trump 1.0 warned the Germans to not be reliant on Russian energy, and he sanctioned Nordstream.
Trump 2.0 (allegedly) wants to restart Nordstream and make Germany reliant on Russian energy.
Normally, you would conclude that the Bild story is clickbait bullshit and go on with your day.
But Trump says he is on a mission from God.
How indeed, Steve.
When Tump 1.0 gave that warning, the Krauts still had working nukes. Since then they’ve become reliant on Russian gas for baseload, demolished the nukes, built loads of windmills, had the gas turned off, and demolished windmills to get at the lignite underneath them.
Oh, their industry is also collapsing because of its energy costs.
Buying Russian gas again to restart their industry and economy so that it can build a new fleet of nukes sounds like a smart idea to me. It would also have the enormous benefit of making the Greens eat shit.
PJF – Trump 2.0 (allegedly) wants to restart Nordstream and make Germany reliant on Russian energy.
It’s not about being reliant on Russian energy, it’s about finding a way back to prosperity and peace instead of poverty and war.
Germany and Europe could do with buying Russian gas again, at least as an interim measure while they diversify supplies and build new atomic plant. The short term alternative to Russian gas is China and the US taking all of Europe’s remaining industries.
If the German government, as per Bild, is trying to slice off its own nez to spite Trump, Hell will mend them.
But Trump says he is on a mission from God
So are we, PJF, never doubt it.
It’s 106 miles to Chicago, we got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it’s dark… and we’re wearing sunglasses.
@Jimmers
[Starmer’s] hoping Ukraine will be his Falklands moment. It won’t be.
Maybe in the Galtieri sense.
The Russians aren’t going any further, really – they’ve got what they wanted, which is the eastern corridor to the Black Sea and control of areas where most people speak Russian and basically are Russian or want to be.
The war machine knows this, which is why it’s spinning into ever more absurd ways to keep the show on the road.
It’s very crazy that 500m Europeans have relied for so long on 300m Americans to keep them safe from 140m Russians, but we are a stupified, divided, degraded, corrupted, weakened and feminised society. The Deep State in America was doing all it could to send their country down that road, and it still is. Trump and Vance are probably the last chance to stop it. They have balls and (for now) public support, so they may just pull it off.
What I can say with absolute certainty is that any British, French or other troops who appear on the battlefield against Russkis who have been fighting properly for years are mostly coming home in pieces, or body bags (or both).
Whatever you think about Putin, or the war, or Trump, or anything else, this is a stone cold fact. Like, we’re gonna need a bigger Royal Wootton Bassett.
Russia doesn’t mind losing blokes. But the only way the British public – which is currently enjoying the warm, fuzzy feeling of flirting with moral self-righteousness and chat about how we’re going to put Putin in his place – will tolerate 200 bodies a day (or 2000), many of them filmed by drones, is by an immense use of propaganda and coercion by the government.
Oh hang on…
But even the skinny femboys with specs and lattes and powerpoints (if they still use those?) in the think tanks and MOD and SPAD offices can’t avoid reality for too long. We haven’t got the transport, or the guns, or the shells, or the small arms, or the ammo, or the tanks and AFVs, or the planes, or the AA, or the AT, or the men to do anything about any of it, never mind the unholy clusterfuck involved in trying to get the mostly femboy troops of ten nations to do what they’re told, at the right time, by a Dutch general.
It’s beyond insanity. It cannot happen, therefore it will not happen, therefore it will collapse soonerrather than later.
It’s possible Trump and Vance planned the whole thing, but I suspect Macron and Starmer and their yes-men senior officers really are that stupid.
But even the skinny femboys with specs and lattes and powerpoints (if they still use those?) in the think tanks and MOD and SPAD offices can’t avoid reality for too long. We haven’t got the transport, or the guns, or the shells, or the small arms, or the ammo, or the tanks and AFVs, or the planes, or the AA, or the AT,
And by the way we can’t make it. I see that they’re going to be making loads of missiles in Belfast for the Ukrainian forces. It will create jobs, apparently.
Luckily there is no way Russia could or would hit those factories and kill all the workers with something like, I dunno, an unstoppable hypersonic missile.
I’m thinking of coming out of retirement and setting up a business selling bomb shelters.
– All parties concerned are better off with the status quo.
You might think so but one of the parties doesn’t. Taiwan is an itch the Chicoms need to scratch as part of the overall loss-of-face rash that’s been driving them mad for decades. They’re going for it. Especially now they’ve seen the reality of American power.
Likewise, Russia would have been better off continuing with the pre 2014 status quo (and certainly the pre 2022). But they too have a rash and they just can’t stop themselves scratching.
As much as I say Taiwan would be better off accepting the lesser of two evils and negotiate a One Nation – Three Systems deal with the mainland, they probably see it differently. Although now that they unquestionably know the USA will ruthlessly throw them under the bus, they could well concede.
– It’s not about being reliant on Russian energy, it’s about finding a way back to prosperity and peace instead of poverty and war.
By being reliant on Russian energy. Was Trump 45 right or is Trump 47 right?
– So are we, . . . never doubt it.
That’s how you would know, Steve.
“But Trump says he is on a mission from God.”
Well it worked for the Blues Brothers.
PJF – You might think so but one of the parties doesn’t. Taiwan is an itch the Chicoms need to scratch as part of the overall loss-of-face rash that’s been driving them mad for decades. They’re going for it. Especially now they’ve seen the reality of American power
I love hearing these reports from mindreaders who know exactly what Xi and Putin are thinking. It’s always some kind of nefarious plot, like the baddies in Teenage Mutant Hero Turtles.
Likewise, Russia would have been better off continuing with the pre 2014 status quo (and certainly the pre 2022). But they too have a rash and they just can’t stop themselves scratching.
Of course they’d be better off. But it wasn’t Russia that couped the Ukrainian government in 2004 and 2014. Nevertheless, psychics tell us the damn Rooskies are genetically programmed to invade other countries.
Although now that they unquestionably know the USA will ruthlessly throw them under the bus, they could well concede.
Fuck em. It was insane to get involved in a dispute between two armed Chinese gangs in the first place, and it’s been 50 years since Nixon went to China anyway. Let the Tongs solve their own inscrutable Oriental disagreements.
As the meme has it:
“So, let me get this straight. Trump, Starmer and Macron want the Germans to build a big army, advance across Poland and attack Russia?
Just writing this down to avoid misunderstandings later…”
The peace-keeping force in Ukraine is going to be Russian. It’s obvious.
It just takes forever for our dimwit leaders to realise that an army of soldiers beats a bunch of weekday equality hires armed with a damp bit of paper.
They can talk about spending a trillion euros they haven’t got to turn steel (which they cannot make, so bought from China) into weapons (in factories which have closed) using energy (on windy days).
Until the H&S and Greens stop them.
30 years from now, they will still be arguing about newts.
TtC: 100%.
Where shall ve launch der Panzer Offensive?
…that’d be Kursk.
God has a wicked sense of humour, hasn’t she?
I love hearing these reports from mindreaders who know exactly what Xi and Putin are thinking. It’s always some kind of nefarious plot, like the baddies in Teenage Mutant Hero Turtles.
No worse than the people responding to every Trump pronouncement with long explanations of why it’s the right thing to do… shortly before he does a complete u-turn and abandons the idea.
What Xi wants is not so opaque. It doesn’t get reported in the West so much, but China’s military activity is not exactly subtle, and the significant recent changes in foreign policy from Xi have been analysed to death. The only question is whether he’s willing to go as far as the rhetoric leads him. That’s a genuine open question – who is the most impulsive right now, Xi or Trump? Who looks the most like they’d fold?
Interested: « Maybe in the Galtieri sense »
If Starmer is to be Galtieri, I wonder who is going to be cast as General Lami Dozo……
– I love hearing these reports from mindreaders who know exactly what Xi and Putin are thinking. It’s always some kind of nefarious plot . . .
This from the man who knows, just knows, that America bombed Nordstream.
There’s no need for your Exchange & Mart x-ray specs. The fuckers have openly stated their goals and acted on them.
– But it wasn’t Russia that couped the Ukrainian government in 2004 and 2014.
Nefarious plots!
No worse than the people responding to every Trump pronouncement with long explanations of why it’s the right thing to do… shortly before he does a complete u-turn and abandons the idea.
Who are these people? And which ideas?
Russia would have been better off continuing with the pre 2014 status quo (and certainly the pre 2022). But they too have a rash and they just can’t stop themselves scratching.
Except that as things stood the post 2022 status quo would (eventually) have been Ukraine in NATO and Russia unable to use any of its (admittedly not brilliant) fleet in winter.
Not to mention all the shelling and the people who wanted to be part of Russia, for whatever reason.
I dunno. Other than whatever Hillary Clinton is for I’m basically agin, I don’t personally give a shit either way, both sides have some merit, both sides have some faults. Like most international conflicts I suppose. I just don’t want any of my money or our soldiers being wasted on it.
– Except that as things stood the post 2022 status quo would (eventually) have been Ukraine in NATO . . .
There is not a chance in hell that Ukraine would join NATO whilst under occupation. The 2014 invasion solved the Ukraine-in-NATO issue for Russia, such that it ever existed as anything more than a propaganda tool for useful idiots.
– Not to mention all the shelling . . .
It’ll be one of the mysteries of the conflict how Donetsk is one of the least damaged cities in what used to be Ukraine.
Andy – No worse than the people responding to every Trump pronouncement with long explanations of why it’s the right thing to do… shortly before he does a complete u-turn and abandons the idea.
Low information post.
PJF – This from the man who knows, just knows, that America bombed Nordstream.
You don’t need to be Detective Columbo to work that one out.
Nefarious plots!
Yes, for which evidence exists.
Earlier on you said the Russians and Chinks have an itch for war? But whenever I bring up the much more warlike and violent recent history of the West/NATO, that’s self-flagellation. It’s not a double standard you have, it’s a single standard: corrupt, globalist Western institutions good, everyone else bad. I keep hoping you’ll snap out of thinking Mark Rutte is on your side or wants good things for you.
I wonder if there’s a Russian PJFski posting on Tim Worsinski’s Blog about how they can’t trust those damn, dirty Westerners because they have an itch for war.
>Emmanuel Macron said the future of Europe and its security “cannot be decided in Moscow or in Washington”
We’ve been deciding it for 70 years, Manny.
So, having declared that Ukraine needed to come to the table because Putin was waiting, and removed Ukraine’s ability to target and predict incoming attacks, Trump is now really, really cross with Russia for “pounding” Ukraine.
I’ve no problem with his politics, it’s the fact that he appears to be a moron that’s the issue.