Europe is exploring using frozen Russian assets to pay for Donald Trump’s $10 billion (£7.4 billion) weapons package for Ukraine, the Telegraph can disclose.
Under the plan, profits generated from almost €200 billion (£173 billion) of Russian Central Bank assets seized by the European Union could be used as part of the bloc’s contribution to the new war chest.
Tends not to work out well when governments do that.
First it’s Russia, then it’s Russians, then it’s anyone called Ivan and finally anyone who squints funny.
They’re thieves, all of ’em. They may be stationary bandits but bandits all the same.
OTOH, stealing folks’ lands and population should have consequences, too.
I agree with Nick.
Either the Russian taxpayers or the free world’s taxpayers are going to have to pay to combat the Russian taxpayers’ murder spree in Ukraine. It has to be one party or the other, regardless of philosophical objections.
I vote that the Russian taxpayers should be the ones who bear the consequences.
OTOH, stealing folks’ lands and population should have consequences, too.
So when will negotiations about compensation from various East European, Middle Eastern, Indian sub continent and sub Saharan countries for the lasting damage done to our cities and citizens by their nationals be taking place?
Nah, it looks so much better to nick a few yachts and football clubs. Just not ones owned by Arab “allies” let alone assets owned by the rulers and oligarchs of those countries currently flooding across our borders and packing our jails to breaking point.
If they do steal the money, that’s an actual declaration of war. You only steal belligerant countries’ assets when they are belligernt countries.
Nick – stealing folks’ lands and population
Kek. You mean the people in Donbass who’ve been fighting against government-backed Neo Nazi militias since the maidan coup in 2014?
Or do we mean the Ukrainian attempts to steal back Crimea, which is solidly Russian and has been for centuries?
Anyway, if we’re pro-Ukrainian, how is this $10Bn going to do anything different to the last $200Bn, which has just been an expensive way to get Ukraine’s cities wrecked and its population massacred? Ukraine doesn’t need more weapons, it needs peace. Ukrainian children don’t need their Dads to be kidnapped, beaten, and sent to die in a trench with their guts perforated, they need fathers.
But we’re the Good Guys. We’re Harry Potter and Luke Skywalker and Debbie Does Dallas. To the last Ukrainian!
OTOH, stealing folks’ lands and population should have consequences, too.
What like the PTB have been doing to us in the UK? Oh goody we get to steal all their money.
Meanwhile, the EU is expected to sign off on its 18th package of sanctions against Russia at a meeting on Wednesday.
You know what they say, 18th time’s the charm.
There must still be a working factory somewhere in Germany that we need to close down, to enhance our “security”. Take THAT, Putler.
“Under the plan, profits generated from almost €200 billion (£173 billion) of Russian Central Bank assets seized by the European Union could be used as part of the bloc’s contribution to the new war chest.”
So it’s freezee interest on the frozen assets rather than the frozen assets. And it’s Russian government frozen asset freezee interest rather than private citizen. Putin knew this would be frozen if he invaded but chose to leave it in place. If he gambled the West would fold and hand it all over on a platter along with Ukraine then any loss is on him. World’s smallest violin, etc.
@ jgh
– If they do steal the money, that’s an actual declaration of war.
Nah, nowadays you can invade a country, steal its territory, murder its citizens and still pretend it’s not war. So just call the plan a “Special Financial Operation” and it’s all good.
@ Steve
– Or do we mean the Ukrainian attempts to steal back Crimea, which is solidly Russian and has been for centuries?
Crimea, along with every other Ukrainian Oblast, voted for Ukrainian independence in the 1991 referendum. While it was the lowest vote, the 54% was still bigger than the leave figure in our Brexit referendum. But shreiking about Jew Nazis, Nuland Coups, etc.
– Ukrainian children don’t need their Dads to be kidnapped, beaten, and sent to die in a trench with their guts perforated . . .
But that’s what they’ll get if we let Russia win; it’s just that those Ukrainian dads will be being forced to fight the Baltics or somewhere else next in the thieving bastard pikeys’ conquest list.
PJF – Crimea, along with every other Ukrainian Oblast, voted for Ukrainian independence in the 1991 referendum. While it was the lowest vote, the 54% was still bigger than the leave figure in our Brexit referendum. But shreiking about Jew Nazis, Nuland Coups, etc.
Most recently, they voted to rejoin Russia.
But shrieking that we shouldn’t mention the Nazis, Nuland coups, the horrible endemic theft and corruption, etc. PJF doesn’t like those inconvenient hatefacts, so shhh!
But that’s what they’ll get if we let Russia win; it’s just that those Ukrainian dads will be being forced to fight the Baltics or somewhere else next in the thieving bastard pikeys’ conquest list.
Absolute pish. And there’s no alternative to Russia “winning” with some kind of negotiated settlement. We’re now 3.5 years into this war and Ukraine is unable to prevent Russia taking territory or regain territory it lost. The counteroffensive you were dreaming about was a horrible failure that cost huge numbers of Ukrainian lives with nothing to show for it. Kursk was a horrible failure that cost huge numbers of Ukrainian lives with nothing to show for it. What’s your great plan now, a mass Naruto run across the minefields? Send in the crack Suicide Squad? FFS.
Nobody in Ukraine/NATO has a plan to “win” this fucking war, they’re just kicking the can down the road to avoid being the ones holding the bag when the inevitable happens. Ukraine will not be in a better negotiating position in 6 months, after losing thousands more men and wasting tens of billions of pounds more in weapons. Men are being sacrificed for the political convenience of cunts.
“We have to fight them over there so we don’t have to fight them over here” was retardlogic when Dubya said it, but you never learn. You’re not actually pro-Ukrainian, you just hate Russia.
You’re not actually pro-Ukrainian, you just hate Russia.
I sure do. They are a bunch of crypto-fascist kleptocratic cunts, who invaded a peaceful sovereign state.
we shouldn’t mention the Nazis, Nuland coups, the horrible endemic theft and corruption, etc
Still talking about Russia, right? Or is it Ukraine’s inconveniently Jewish ‘nazis’?
Most recently, they voted to rejoin Russia.
Hilarious. Even the Kremlinbots don’t believe that.
Marius – you’re a Pole, right?
I sure do. They are a bunch of crypto-fascist kleptocratic cunts, who invaded a peaceful sovereign state.
So you hate Russians and your excuse is their shitty, scummy government’s foreign policy wrt Little Russia.
More the fool you.
Still talking about Russia, right? Or is it Ukraine’s inconveniently Jewish ‘nazis’?
Are you retarded or something? (See my first question)
Don’t come on here and try to snigger away facts you don’t like, or you’ll get made fun of and be called a silly goose.
Hilarious. Even the Kremlinbots don’t believe that.
Only a belming imbecile would claim the majority of people in Crimea don’t want to be part of Russia, but don’t let that stop you.
The He-Man Russia Haters club should stop being hard men on the internet, and sign up to fight the Russians you hate so much, since Ukraine is having great difficulty kidnapping new recruits to die in your favourite war.
Good luck x
Marius
It’s obviously tragic – all war is shit. Putin is obviously a wanker. But so is Zelensky.
This is a complex series of historical events, not one sudden invasion. The idea that the State Dept and our own lot and others are not involved seems highly fanciful, given what we know.
Why were British and US politicians immediately so dramatically fixated on it all? It never made any sense to me.
It wasn’t for self-defence: there was and remains no likelihood of Putin invading anywhere else, and no possibility at all of Russia threatening us or the US with any military action (ironically unless we push him into it WWIII style).
In any given decade there are dozens, perhaps hundreds, of little wars going on around the world, and some quite big ones, and we don’t pay much attention to any of them (unless we’re in them – and even then it’s only really ad fodder for the telly).
Insofar as we do anything, unfortunately all we seem to do is make them worse.
Is there a pattern to this? Hmmm.
Anyway, blah blah, prior to the invasion Ukraine was about as corrupt and fucked-up as Russia, with more actual Nazis (as Guardian and BBC headlines repeatedly warned, until all of a sudden that no longer mattered and Trudeau was inviting proud ex members of the Waffen SS to address his parliament etc etc).
The whole thing stinks, we should never have got involved, and as Steve says prolonging the inevitable is just costing a lot of lives (and putting $$$ in the pockets of US and British arms manufacturers).
I – Anyway, blah blah, prior to the invasion Ukraine was about as corrupt and fucked-up as Russia, with more actual Nazis (as Guardian and BBC headlines repeatedly warned, until all of a sudden that no longer mattered and Trudeau was inviting proud ex members of the Waffen SS to address his parliament etc etc
Yoss. Being gaslit about this is especially annoying for those of us who were aware of Ukraine before 2022. Ukraine was Neo Nazi Disneyland for a long, long time before this stupid war. The place has been lousy with em since the 90’s, American and European neo Nazis, skinheads, etc. used to go there to hold meetups for that reason.
There’s also tons of skinheads in Russia, but they tend to get arrested for that shit over there.
Both Russia and Ukraine are horrible low trust societies with a high percentage of bad people, which is why they emigrate at the earliest opportunity and is also a good reason to stay out of their Slavic blood feuds.
Why were British and US politicians immediately so dramatically fixated on it all? It never made any sense to me.
Russia is the neocons’ #1 target, the goal is regime change, break the place up, get back to stealing their natural resources like it was the 90’s again.
It wasn’t for self-defence: there was and remains no likelihood of Putin invading anywhere else, and no possibility at all of Russia threatening us or the US with any military action (ironically unless we push him into it WWIII style).
The irony is, Russia haters just need to wait. Russians are doing a better job depopulating Russia of Russians than anyone else could short of Total Thermonuclear War.
Countries that are demographically contracting at an alarming rate don’t go on to conquer the world. Things are so bad in Russia, they’re planning to import millions of Indians, to make it worse.
Imperialism is a game for healthy, young, expanding societies with lots of excess young, military aged men. Which is why the Third World is sending its people here – so that our country becomes their country.
Absolute pish.
But Putin has written a book in which he outlines exactly those aims. Returning the Baltic states to Russian control. Putin’s a liar? Joking?
Putin’s a dreamer (and possibly a liar and a joker as well).
But even if he’s not why should we care – to the point, as we keep being warned, of conscripting our youth to go and fight for Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania? It’s fucking imbecilic.
BiS – But Putin has written a book in which he outlines exactly those aims. Returning the Baltic states to Russian control. Putin’s a liar? Joking?
Feel free to quote the relevant sections then?
FWIW, and I’ve said this repeatedly, Putin is an evil gangster who is going to Hell. People love to cast up the unfavorable things I said about Ukraine and its regime, but always suffer from amnesia on all the times I’ve been equally or more critical of the bloody Russians.
I am not pro-Russia, I am pro-life. And pro-not being poor.
Interested is right – we keep being warned, of conscripting our youth to go and fight for Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania? It’s fucking imbecilic.. There’s nothing in the Baltic worth us spending any lives or money on. Plenty of other countries than Estonia have brothels.
But this also holds true for Russia. They don’t need a tiny sliver of land where the locals hate Russians. They’ve already got Kaliningrad, and if the Balts would stop trying to fuck with the Russians over that, I doubt they’d deserve much attention from Moscow, which has bigger problems to deal with.
But if I’m wrong, more the fool them, and NOMFUP. Russia is demographically dying. They can’t afford to keep fighting wars… and neither can we. Britain is not the world’s policeman, we’re a medium sized island that’s being invaded and occupied by Africans and Asians.
Noticed recently that Estonia wants to ban believing in God in places like Narva
https://orthodoxtimes.com/estonia-parliament-approves-ban-on-orthodox-churchs-ties-with-moscow-patriarchate
Sure, it’s ‘ties with Moscow’ at the moment they want to ban, but they will be back to ban it properly. They’re already moving to ban public education in Russian as first language as soon as they’ve got the teachers.
A few more bans, and access to guns and we’ll get a breakaway republic.
Forgive the estonians for they don’t know what they do – but no way should UK children be fighting for overt fascism.
B – it’s why I asked Bloke Marius if he’s a Pole, Walter.
Eastern Europeans are irrationally retarded when the subject is Russia:
* This giant, authoritarian country we’re neighbours with is a serious threat, therefore:
* We’ll do everything in our power to insult and anger them
Makes no sense, but it underscores the foolishness of NATO expansion. . Most of these countries are incapable of defending themselves, yet are quite happy to try to get US to fight Russians on their behalf.
It’s Scrappy Doo shouting “let me at im, Uncle Scoob!”. When the other dog he’s winding up is a fucking rottweiler.
“Britain is not the world’s policeman”
‘Defund the police.’
—
(BTW. I believe, technically, we are. The UK is a permanent member of the UN Security Council, responsible for enforcement of Article 2 as set out in Articles 39-51 of the UN Charter. We promised. As such, we *are* the world’s policemen.)
NiV – We promised
Oh did “we”, kemo sabe? Using your argument verbatim, Putin could legitimately claim that Russia is also the World Police.
I think the world is tired of self-appointed coppers.
Re: Eastern Europe and the Russian Question. It occurs to me the problem is that they don’t want to find a way of living with Russia like a normal neighbour.
They still want revenge on Russia.
We can have peace and security, or we can help Estonia and co. get “revenge” to service the historical grievances of the Potatozone.
But not both.
Statesmanship, preventable tragedies, etc.
“Using your argument verbatim, Putin could legitimately claim that Russia is also the World Police.”
They are. They’re a *corupt* policeman, but they’re what you’ll be left with if you choose not to participate yourself.
“I think the world is tired of self-appointed coppers.”
A few selfish people in the US and UK are. The criminals certainly are! But plenty of people aren’t. The UN was formed after WWII, when the world was tired of *not* having a world police to stop this sort of crap happening, and not everybody has forgotten it.
The ‘Defund the police’ movement only ever has one conclusion – crime escalating out of control. Gotham City. Nobody wants to have to fund the police, or join the police, or have to deal with the corruption and overreach – until they see the alternative. It starts with shoplifters and vandalism and petty theft, and ends up with people setting fire to people on the subway and watching them burn. Living in a rich and prosperous neighbourhood far from the borders of civilisation breeds complacency. But the barbarians are waiting at the border, ready to sack Rome. You fund policemen to shut them down them when they’re small, so you don’t have to fight a world war to defeat them after you’ve allowed them to grow. People *understood* in 1945, but now we’re back to ‘Peace in our time’ again.
“It occurs to me the problem is that they don’t want to find a way of living with Russia like a normal neighbour.”
They didn’t invade Russia. They wouldn’t invade Russia. They were no threat to Russia. NATO isn’t a threat to Russia either, so long as they stay within their borders. The rules everyone agreed to on joining (and continue to agree to by remaining in) the UN was that you didn’t settle international disputes by invading. A *lot* of countries are annoying and full of bad people you don’t like, and maybe you think the borders should be somewhere else, but if they don’t threaten other countries, we leave them alone. You can interfere politically or culturally or economically or diplomatically or legally but not militarily. Russia have been a pain since the Revolution, and have always had imperial ambitions. Russia started this, because they knew the West was weak and cowardly and wouldn’t do anything if they broke the rules.
This has bog all to do with the merits or shortcomings of eastern European countries or historical ‘grievances’. We don’t care. Nobody outside Ukraine gives a stuff for Ukraine. This is purely about Russia. The deal was we don’t invade other countries to settle political disputes. Russia did. You either make sure they regret it, or you live in a world without policemen, and with all that entails.
The principle of helping one another goes way back. Luke 10:29-37 defines what a ‘neighbour’ is. (“And whatsoever thou spendest more, when I come again, I will repay thee.”) We still have too many pious priests and Levites; and not enough neighbours.
Now tell us why Afghanistan was a nato operation and how it wasn’t an invasion of an ‘innocent’ nation requiring UN action to stop it.
“Now tell us why Afghanistan was a nato operation and how it wasn’t an invasion of an ‘innocent’ nation requiring UN action to stop it.”
OK. Afghanistan was the support base for Al Qaida which had just done 9/11 – a dramatic use of force attacking another country and a clear threat to international peace and security.
State-sponsored international terrorism is one of those threats against other nations the ‘world’s police’ are supposed to deal with. It’s much the same as Iran’s activities using Hezbollah and Hamas to attack Israel, or the Houthi to attack Saudi Arabia. Those are the sort of things the UN is supposed to stop. It’s what it’s for.
I’m not claiming the system is perfect, and I’m not claiming they always follow the letter, or even the spirit of the treaty. In fact, I think they’re apallingly bad at it. I’m just pointing out that to the extent there is such a thing as the “world’s policeman”, we did actually volunteer for the job, and every UN member formally acknowledges it. It’s a job that needs doing, and if *we* don’t, what do you think you will get instead?
We’re a small country too. There are bad guys bigger than us, and small threats can grow into big threats if you let them. If we come under attack, we’re going to need help. Why should anyone help us, if we won’t help anyone else? Won’t they just tell us “we’re not the world’s policeman” too?
We *can* afford it if we choose to – it’s just we’d just rather spend our money on self-indulgent welfare instead of defence. “If you want to find all the cops They’re hanging out in the donut shop…”