Some of Britain’s leading cultural institutions including the National Trust have warned the prime minister that they face being “crippled” by new consumer rights rules.
The legislation could be catastrophic for the business models of charities and museums because it contains a “loophole” allowing abuse of their financially important membership schemes.
Charity membership schemes will be subject to a “two-week cooling off period”, allowing people to cancel them and get a refund, under the provisions of the Digital Markets, Competition and Consumers Act (DMCCA).
The heads of the National Trust, Tate, Historic Royal Palaces and other organisations wrote to Sir Keir Starmer on July 31, saying charities must be treated differently to commercial organisations.
Why?
People take out a membership, use it for a couple of days, cash it back in at full price. OK.
Why are charities different?
Because commercial organisations are bad people and deserve everything that happens to them.
Tim, please see Richard Murphy’s description of a fascist this morning and understand a little bit more about yourself and about commercial organisations.
Ironman
I found this piece particularly enlightening given his rampant anti- semitism :
It is, in fact, commonplace for those accused of being fascist to use DARVO (deny, attack, and reverse victim and offender) gaslighting techniques on those accusing them of being so.
He uses precisely those tactics when confronted about Gaza. He is also economically basically fascist.
Until I lost patience I was bombarded with National Trust ads on Facebook. The families depicted were about as diverse as a TV commercial.
Thinly disguised Labour campaigning entities and income sources to the permanently protesting
Cut them off without a penny
Trump has shown the way
The “National Trust” is just theme-parks for the middle-classes…
I’m rapidly coming to the conclusion charities should be abolished, as tax free entities. They should all be converted to limited companies (or mutuals if they prefer) and pay all the taxes just the same as everyone else. Maybe an exemption for small local organisations that are strictly banned from any political activity.
Maybe an exemption for small local organisations that are strictly banned from any political activity.
I was under the impression that ALL charities are statutorily banned from political activity. So are we really looking at a situation that the Charity Commissioners are simply not doing their job?
@ asiaseen
There are weasel-word get-outs.
The real problem here is that charities sell a one year membership which comes with free entry to something they run (a museum, whatever) often for the same price or less than the entry ticket.
The entry ticket can’t claim Gift Aid, but the membership can.
What they are worried is that people will take a membership out, visit the building, and then cancel the membership afterwards meaning they got in for free.
The sensible approach would be to extend Gift Aid to the entry ticket for museums and stately homes and nature reserves and let them decide whether to take the risk on a refundable membership or just sell entry tickets.
I’d rather abolish gift-aid. I’d also get rid of the rates discount for charities too.
@ Richard Gadsden
That would lose the intention of “Gift Aid” that it is only for genuine gifts that provide no benefit to the Giver. National Trust, English Heritage etc are cheating by claiming Goft Aid tax benefits when they sell membership that includes free/reduced entry fees but HMRC have turned a blind eye – allowing Gift aid on entry tickets would be too blatant.
@Richard (NOT Murphy) Gadsden, I recently visited the Horniman Museum, which is free, but wanted to go into the attached aquarium, which isn’t – when I bought my ticket, I was asked to Gift Aid it.
‘institutions including the National Trust have warned the prime minister’
“OFF WITH THEIR HEADS!”
Y’all are FU. Gamecock can’t imagine some charity warning Donald Trump.
If these poncey so-called “charities” (one has to wonder who actually benefits after all the necessary “emoluments” have been dished out) are so concerned about losing dosh, why don’t they stamp the membership card in some way, so that any visit is recorded, and therefore the card cannot be returned?
I’m rapidly coming to the conclusion charities should be abolished, as tax free entities. They should all be converted to limited companies (or mutuals if they prefer) and pay all the taxes just the same as everyone else. Maybe an exemption for small local organisations that are strictly banned from any political activity.
Small organisations (I run a couple) generally can’t jump through all the hoops needed to be registered as a charity. But an annual turnover limit, similar to that for VAT registration should suffice.
@asiaseen
“Charities can take part in political activity that supports their purpose and is in their best interests”.
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/political-activity-and-campaigning-by-charities
BJ
The “National Trust” is just theme-parks for the middle-classes…
The NT is an odious, politically correct, slavery-obsessed and anti-British organisation, but it’s no longer “just…for the middle-classes.” Many ordinary people (including second-generation immigrants) seem to enjoy its houses, gardens, landscapes and events. The other day, in Wetherspoon’s, I overheard a family talking positively about their visit to the local NT house. Anyone can appreciate fine architecture, furniture, gardens etc: you don’t need a degree…
My last interaction with the NT was path-of-least-resistance paying for the car park, plus “you are graciously allowed to go in the gift shop”, plus “you get £1 discount on the bus back” at the Giant’s Causeway.
I vaguely remember some museum in London with something I wanted to see, but they don’t sell you a ticket on the door, I had to register online, buy a 1-year membership which allows unlimited 4- oh yes, the London Transport Museum.
It all looked hideously complicated. So I just gave up and still haven’t been.
Why can’t you just turn up and go at anything in London any more?
Next time I go I’ll probably be refused entry to the Central Line because I didn’t notify my intention to ride 2 weeks in advance.
“see Richard Murphy’s description of a fascist this morning”
Murphy’s definitions included the classics that fascists don’t describe themselves as fascists, and that if you call them fascists, they’ll deny that they are.
I blame this on Bill. Anyone who denies they are an alcoholic is an alcoholic.
Therefore anyone who denies they are a fascist is a fascist.
False Consciousness © Vlad Lenin
You know one of my hobby horses is that government can just do things, and it’s easier to fix our problems than we are led to believe?
This is a good example. It’ll be very simple to drain the swamp, just follow the money and then take it from them.
“Why can’t you just turn up and go at anything in London any more?”
A trick to keep blacks out?
“People take out a membership, use it for a couple of days, cash it back in at full price. OK.”
I have a very small violin for National Trust and others, but they ought to be able to recover the cost of anything “gamed” from them by this, so refund the annual membership but subtract the cost of the visit already enjoyed.
And the same for businesses.
This does however leave things open to abuse, say charging too much for the already enjoyed services.
Was it Tacitus who said “the more numerous the laws …..”?
Tacitus did in fact describe the “germans” as red headed rather than fair. Could it be that north Europeans have become fairer in the last two thousand years? We’re always discovering something new that nobody expected. The Spanish for blond is “rubio” – is there a clue there?
I imagine that charities asking for gift aid on entry would claim that the money is a donation rather than a fee. It’s BS, of course, as I very much doubt they’d let you in without money changing hands. Batsford Arboretum tried this with us last year. I dodged the gift aid by saying we weren’t UK residents to avoid all the normal money raising bollocks associated with giving charities your contact details.
@John77 – you are broadly right about the intention of GiftAid as it applies to donations.
However… (a) benefits may be given in return for the donation, but [i] GiftAid can only be claimed on the portion of the donation which is greater than the benefit value; and [ii] the charity must make available the same benefits for purchase at the level of value they ascribe to them. You can quite easily find yourself with a £40 ticket to a nice summer opera by calling the box office and asking to buy a ticket without the ‘optional’ donation (Glyndebourne don’t pull this trick as they are wealthy enough already, but some others do max out on the donation portion)
But to the point, (b), there is a seperate rule for NT and similar, where by adding a token donation amount on to what was an entrance fee (so by asking for £10 plus £1 = £11, rather than £10), the whole sum becomes eligible for GA, not just the extra £1. This is daft, but delibereately designed in the GA system.