Starmer’s choice? Does he support Palestine or the USA? He cant have both.
The people we share a language, culture qnd civilisation with? Or not?
Toughie.
Starmer’s choice? Does he support Palestine or the USA? He cant have both.
The people we share a language, culture qnd civilisation with? Or not?
Toughie.
How about neither? None of our sodding business.
‘I used to think that the day would never come, I’d see delight in the shade of the morning sun’
From a ‘True believer’
Three thoughts.
Today starts early
First, of course, Hamas should release all its Israeli hostages. Hostage taking is utterly unacceptable.
And if they don’t (and given they’re about the only leverage it has I can’t see them doing it)
Second, of course, Israel should release all its Palestinian hostages. Hostage taking is utterly unacceptable.
I don’t think the two are remotely comparable but of course this expert no doubt knows best
Third, if Hamas is destroyed, it will be replaced. You cannot commit genocide on people and expect them to surrender and accept it as the USA and Israel are demanding; it is simply not going to happen, meaning that this proposed outcome is impossible to deliver: it is not going to happen.
for once actually there’s a kernel of truth here. However, simply allowing it to exist given the number of Israeli casualties and the events of October 7th is unlikely to satisfy Israeli public opinion. Also there is no Genocide.
It is not going to happen any more than Starmer’s demand that Hamas recognise that it can have no role in the future of Palestine is going to happen. If Palestine is to be a state, and it must be, it is for the people of Palestine to decide that, not Trump, Netanyahu or Starmer, and there is a long record of former ‘terrorist leaders’ going on to lead their states. Leave aside Mandela, and just look at Eamon de Valera in Ireland.
You’re comparing Mandela with Hamas? I think if Hamas is left in situ there can be no peace.
These demands are undeliverable then. Anyone can see that. They are, in other words, excuses for the continuing genocide.
It’s a highly curious genocide which involves the feeding of its victims. Also, the south African government driving it is one of the most corrupt in the know world so to suggest, they and assorted other corrupt Arab and African kleptocracies act as some kind of moral arbiter is profoundly offensive
So, Starmer has to decide. Does he break with Trump and condemn this and support the right of the Palestinian people to decide?
Or, does he continue to support genocide?
Or does he perhaps recognize that this isn’t the most pressing issue on the majority of the voters minds and those for whom it is such a preoccupation should in many cases be being removed from the country on the grounds they shouldn’t be here in the first place and their values are totally incompatible with their continued presence here.
Oddly, it is that simple in his case, and there is very little in between, apart from promoting the obvious, which is the need for an international peacekeeping force to deliver aid to Gaza from the sea, and to tell Israel it must accept that this will happen, which it could, virtually overnight.
I cannot even imagine the logistical difficulty in putting an international peackeeeping forced in place – amounting to what is all intents and purposes a seaborne expedition into Gaza against (potentially) on one side a genocidal group of terrorist maniacs and on the other one of the best armed and best trained armies on the planet. Who would make up this force? Who would command? We certainly don’t have the navy to provide transport – what are they going to do? Commandeer civilian vessels? I appreciate his expertise is universal but it would be good to get some details at even a high level.
It’s Starmer’s choice. He can do the right thing. Or book his ticket for The Hague.
Even the most maniacal human rights advocate who Reform will need to disbar would have a hard time making a case against Starmer in the Hague. This is beneath the elevel of a teenager and frankly for someone nearly 70 an acute embarrassment
I realised that my ultimate test of who were the “goodies” and the “baddies” in a war is which I would prefer living next door to.
Most of this shit is just a pose. Huge march in Australia for “free Palestine”. Yeah, as if you’re going to have to ever put up with the gay murdering, kidnapping, rapists in Sydney. Plenty of space in Australia, why don’t we move all of them there, if you love them so much?
You can tell how seriously anyone really is because of the whole “queers for Palestine”, which is like comedy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1bLXk6UVts
I’m not sure who TTK will be asking what to do? A bit of pillow talk with his very good friend or a phone call to his sexual appendage adviser, “Sir” Tony?
How about Starmer puts Britain first? He won’t of course…
Van Patten.
One of the biggest problems with the west is that we perceive the whole world as having our values and that simply isn’t true. It’s the whole flaw with the war in Afghanistan and Iraq. That the Afghanis wanted liberal democracy, feminism and all that. But they don’t. These countries are all about land and conquest. Much like Europe 300 years ago. Or like drug dealers today. You get rich by killing the guys next door and taking their land.
Most of the Middle East hasn’t industrialised. It has the mindset of the Tudors and Philip II. Israel isn’t like that because Israel is mostly industrial. It’s shit land with little oil under it. It’s also why Egypt is generally on OK terms with Israel now. Egypt is less and less an oil/agricultural economy. It’s tourism and growing industrialisation. That means being friendly.
Most of the Middle East hasn’t industrialised. It has the mindset of the Tudors and Philip II. Israel isn’t like that because Israel is mostly industrial.
Oh ffs. Fred Dibnah rides again.
No, the reason the Middle East is a shithole is because it’s full of Arabs. Israel isn’t a shithole, because it’s full of Jews.
Genetics matter, and some populations are just less impressive, useful, or pleasant to be around than others are.
Hope that helps x
Steve,
“Oh ffs. Fred Dibnah rides again.”
So why aren’t we routinely at war with the Spanish and French, like we were for centuries?
‘Plenty of space in Australia, why don’t we move all of them there, if you love them so much?’
Fuck off, WB!!!
Most of Palestine is free – it’s called “Israel”.
But TTK has made his choice and it isn’t America (or far more pertinently the best interests of the British people).
WB So why aren’t we routinely at war with the Spanish and French, like we were for centuries?
Nonsequitur.
Araby is a violent shithole because of all the violent, shitty people. The Peninsular War has nothing to do with whether Mohammed, and his brother Muhammad, and his other brother Mohammod were born of consanguineous copulation in Donkeyfelchistan.
Egypt is less and less an oil/agricultural economy. It’s tourism and growing industrialisation. That means being friendly.
But surprisingly, highly industrialised 20th century Germany was not friendly to Jews, and killed them on an industrial scale.
You’ve been told before, your theory would be great if it wasn’t for the inconvenient facts such as the US Civil War, WW1, WW2, etc. Industrialisation did not lead to peace, it led to the most destructive wars in history.
Judge Holden was right.
Steve
Welcome back BTW – thought the CIA had nailed you for ‘pro Putin bias’ or the Online Safety Act had claimed its first casualty but am guessing you probably had more exciting things to do than post here….
Western Bloke
I’d agree with you on the naivete of the West – undoubtedly a massive issue here. Murphy more than most with his insistence that a piece deal be imposed on Israel which leaves in place a movement that has killed 1500 people and would ideally like to kill the entirety of the country. One can only hope Mossad consider him important enough to be targeted – then again maybe not as that would make him even more insufferable than he is already.
But you cannot dismiss the cultural element. Jews are renowned as being cultured and highly intelligent. Muslims are perhaps less renowned given the lack of achievement certainly in recent times. And many of them are really barely more than feral beasts, as we see in the numbers of Eritreans and Afghans imprisoned in the UK for offences.
Having a human rights lawyer dealing with Hamas is like a small town solicitor taking on the KC sharks at the Old Bailey. Starker is just not up to the job. Every concession he makes is seen as a weakness and the Arab mind is to take advantage of that. You can not use logic and reason with these people. Even the rest of the numpties advising him know that, but their political ideology won’t tell him so. Perhaps a better alternative to threatening to recognise Palestine if Israel stop their military actions, something which Israel will ignore, would be to tell Hamas that Britain would not recognise Palestine unless the hostages were released. The fact that Hamas will ignore that, and then continue to complain that they are the victims, only proves their mind set. The starving of the people of Gaza while the Hamas terrorists gorge on the looted aid trucks matters not to them. Every picture of a starving child is seen as beneficial publicity to them and their warped cause. Even declarations of concessions by Hamas can not be taken at face value, because of taqquiya.
What the answer is, I have no idea, but it is not the threat by a man so far out of his depth, he has no idea what he’s doing.
As an aside, a declaration by Starmer of the recognition of a Palestine state by the British government really could be the start of a civil war in this country.
VP – Welcome back BTW – thought the CIA had nailed you for ‘pro Putin bias’ or the Online Safety Act had claimed its first casualty but am guessing you probably had more exciting things to do than post here….
Be merry! We meet again, at the turn of the tide. A great storm is coming, but the tide has turned.
Jews are renowned as being cultured and highly intelligent. Muslims are perhaps less renowned given the lack of achievement certainly in recent times.
And there’s no reason to believe they’ll ever amount to much. People often talk as if “Islam is just where Christianity was 400 years ago” or similar pablum. First off, no, it isn’t. Second, history doesn’t come with an arc that’s bending towards anything. The Aborigines spent 50,000 years grubbing in the mud with sticks and now they’re huffing petrol on the white man’s dole. “Progress” only happens when capable men make it so, it’s not a thing that just happens over time.
Speaking of dogshit cultures:
Two Afghan asylum seekers have been charged over the alleged rape of a 12-year-old girl, which has left a small Midlands town reeling in shock, the Mail on Sunday can reveal.
Ahmad Mulakhil, 23, has been charged with the rape of the underage girl in Nuneaton, Warwickshire.
A second man, Mohammad Kabir, also 23, has been charged with aiding and abetting rape, as well as strangulation and kidnap of the girl, who is now receiving specialist care.
Despite the huge interest the incident has caused in Nuneaton, sources have told the Mail on Sunday that Warwickshire Police advised local councillors and officials not to reveal the asylum seeker background of the two suspects, for fear of ‘inflaming community tensions’.
Yes it’s the usual story of the British government organising the rape of British children at the brown hands of wandering parasites whom the police shield and protect.
But…
Both properties are managed by Serco, which has accommodated around five asylum seekers in each house. Serco has a £1.9billion contract with the Home Office to house asylum seekers across the country.
Can you guess the number I’m thinking of, that Serco should be forced to pay* as windfall tax?
*It’s ok if they go bankrupt, either or. People who are currently profiting from housing migrant rapists in your town should count themselves lucky we don’t kill them.
Arabs – 10 Nobel prizes, 8 for peace (really…….), 1 for literature, 1 for chemistry.
More universities in the United States than the whole of the moslem world (and most of those universities focus on islam).
Going back some years, the phone company Nokia had a larger industrial capacity than the whole of the moslem world.
And the Daily Mail is reporting on three “Brits” being charged with rape in Croatia.
Ami Arifi, 29, Gezhim Xhafa, 28, and Sohqib Shakibi, 24. Two are originally from Kosovo, but have British citizenship as does the third”.
On the subject of hamas.
https://app.un2720.org/tracking/intercepted
This appears to be a genuine UN website which makes it all the more surprisingly that it discloses the narrative-busting fact that nearly 90% of trucks and pallets are, in their own words:-
“Intercepted. Either peacefully by hungry people or forcefully armed actors, during transit in Gaza”.
As an aside, a declaration by Starmer of the recognition of a Palestine state by the British government really could be the start of a civil war in this country.
Could you imagine, starmer is so weak that if WW3 kicked off , it’s perfectly possible he would send troops to aid Gaza in their fight as a means of keeping the fuzzy wuzzies here onside. Then we’d end up with UK troops against US troops… though I can’t imagine it would be very popular among the people conscripted to fight there. I know where my allegiance would be if forced to go over there to fight.
Or maybe it is a genius move by starmer.
Recognise the Palestinian state. Promise them military aid. Conscript and send over all the Palestinian action bunch and any supporters. Tell the IDF where they’re going to be. Let them take care of our problem for us.
Do we think starmer is that smart?
(Rhetorical question. He’s a fuckwit)
https://altalang.com/beyond-words/a-note-on-arabic-literacy-and-translation/
“Spain translates more books from English to its language in a single year than the entire Arab world has in 1000 years—one thousand years. If this is the case with English to Arabic translations, imagine how few Spanish, French, Russian, Portuguese, Chinese, Japanese, etc. are translated into Arabic. Not only is roughly 20% (1/5) of the Arab world illiterate but for those who can read, the opportunity to read global literature is extremely limited”
Well when you are privy to the absolute and irrefutable word of god – in arabic of course – I suppose you don’t need to!
Steve
“People who are currently profiting from housing migrant rapists in your town should count themselves lucky we don’t kill them.”
You’ll love the fact that Morgan McSweeney’s (Starmer’s eminence gris) father has pocketed £6.5 million from housing ‘asylum seekers’ in Ireland this year.
Steve,
“But surprisingly, highly industrialised 20th century Germany was not friendly to Jews, and killed them on an industrial scale.”
But pre-war Germany wasn’t “highly industrialised”. People think this because of Nazi propaganda footage of factories, and because of West Germany after the war, which was more industrial. it was poorer (per capita) than France, UK, Belgium, Sweden, and wasn’t far off where Ireland was. That’s why they voted for Hitler, because they got so desperate.
Many parts of Germany, especially in the East like Prussia and Pomerania were agricultural. You can also see where they voted:-
https://kottke.org/17/03/map-of-where-germans-voted-for-the-nazis-in-1933
The largest Jewish populations pre-war were in the industrial cities: Berlin, Frankfurt, Cologne and Hamburg.
It’s why West Germany was a stonking success, I think. They lost 30% of Germany that was mostly agricultural peasants. Which made them richer per capita but also changed their perspective to not wanting Lebensraum.
I was mildly surprised to see Murphy suggesting that Starmer has a choice – I’d got used to Guardianistas insisting that we have no choice – we *must* do X (so that they don’t have to defend themselves against the argument that X is mind-blowingly stupid and/or evil [usually both])
jgh: Tecknick’ly, most of Palestine is called The Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan.
In other news, the European Court of Justice has ruled that deportations can only be made to countries where all the territory and all the people are safe.
That seems to rule out England, as parts of the West End, Bradford, Rotherham etc don’t look safe to me and I certainly don’t want my children there.
Meanwhile 300 Gazan children are to be imported for treatment on the NHS. Accompanied by their mothers, aunts, and no doubt other family members.
To be followed under family reunion, no doubt by 13 year old Aisha and Hamed her forty year old husband and Hamas veteran…
I can feel a Lucy Connolly moment coming on. I’d better stop.
” Israel isn’t a shithole, because it’s full of Jews. ”
The Jews famously were, and some of the more fanatic/religious still are, even worse than anything you project on Muslems.
In fact… Your favourite Book pretty much describes what they’ve done with relish, the New part literally describes what they did to one of their own because he bucked the Status Quo, and archeology and scripture research has shown the sheer ruthlessness with which “dissidents of the Faith” were Ausradiert before *and* after the Romans.
In fact.. the only time Jews weren’t killing each other and their neighbours off in the name of Yahweh, was when they did not get a chance because occupation and displacement.
The reason Deep Islam is so militant and intolerant, is because , of all things, they copied it straight from the source: the jews.
@ Sam Duncan
The Philistines occupied part of a coastal strip (marked as Phoenicia in my childhood History Atlas); the Hashemite Kingdom of Trans-Jordan does not actually touch the territory of the Philistines.
If Jordan swallowed up Israel and Gaza, it might well be an improvement for the latter two but Jordan is currently struggling with looking after more refugees from Syria, Iraq, the West Bank etc than its resident population.
The Jews famously were, and some of the more fanatic/religious still are, even worse than anything you project on Muslems.
Horseshit. I mean, seriously? None of us were terribly civilised around the time of the Old Testament. And I don’t see Jews, hardcore religious types or any others, raping kids all over Europe.
Do women in Israel or any other Jewish community past or present have to wear a bin bag on head to foot so as not to be considered fair game for gang rape?
“marked as Phoenicia in my childhood History Atlas”
Aha. Exactly. Palestine is not (only) Philistia/Phoenicia. The Romans renamed the province of Judaea in spite after the Jews tried to kick them out. There were, at various times, three provinces with “Palaestina” in their name, covering a much larger area than modern Israel (although, to be fair, not quite as large as the 20th Century Mandate, which is what I was talking about). The capital of Palaestina Salutaris was at Petra. So there’s some genuine academic doubt as to whether the word was even referring to the Philistines at all.
“which is the need for an international peacekeeping force to deliver aid to Gaza from the sea”
Well, that’s going to be fun. It seems to be hard enough to do on land. Anyone want to put bets on how long it would be for the peacekeeping force to have to open fire?
The videos of the starving hostages over the weekend is all I need to know. Broke my heart.
Actually, @jgh, most of Palestine is called Jordan.
“But pre-war Germany wasn’t “highly industrialised”.”
Famously they went to war with almost as many horses as they did in WW1. The propaganda newsreels of the Blitzkrieg failed to show the long lines of marching men and horses dragging artillery just like they had 25 years previously. The BEF was the most mechanised army in 1939.
@Chernyy,
So Starmer is a fvckwit. I’d call him a cvnt. I suppose that he’s both. My question is which is more accurate?
The two are not mutually exclusive, Witchie, and which is pre-eminent probably depends on context. He’s primarily a cunt when he knows what he’s doing. He’s a fuckwit when in those vast regions in which he doesn’t. But both are always in play.
@John – “https://app.un2720.org/tracking/intercepted – Intercepted. Either peacefully by hungry people or forcefully armed actors’
It seems to me that these are (or could be) exact opposites. The whole point is to deliver food to hungry people. If they come to the trucks, why is that not a bonus? Whereas taken by armed actors, suggests that the food won’t go to the hungry which defeats the purpose.
@Mark
Company that sells translation services claims that a lot more translation is needed. Hmm.
If not even the Arabs support Palestine . . . why is it so important to tater?
Recusant – You’ll love the fact that Morgan McSweeney’s (Starmer’s eminence gris) father has pocketed £6.5 million from housing ‘asylum seekers’ in Ireland this year
I certainly hope no angry Irish people burn his house down and show him a funny new way to wear his kneecaps.
But bear in mind, if you are shriven all sins can be forgiven, even making bad people do a funny dance while their tongue turns blue.
WB – But pre-war Germany wasn’t “highly industrialised”. People think this because of Nazi propaganda footage of factories, and because of West Germany after the war, which was more industrial. it was poorer (per capita) than France, UK, Belgium, Sweden, and wasn’t far off where Ireland was. That’s why they voted for Hitler, because they got so desperate.
I’m sorry, but this is complete bollocks and I’d fail you if you were my history student.
First off, Nazi Germany 1933-1941 was one of the most successful industrial societies on planet Earth. Don’t make me fetch the statistics.
Second off, your theory of industrialism = peace carries a sliding timescale. I don’t know if you’ve noticed? Industrialisation leads to peace, UNLESS it’s 1930’s Europe, in which case it wasn’t industrialised enough for peace? Yeah, no.
The largest Jewish populations pre-war were in the industrial cities: Berlin, Frankfurt, Cologne and Hamburg.
True but irrelevant.
It’s why West Germany was a stonking success, I think. They lost 30% of Germany that was mostly agricultural peasants. Which made them richer per capita but also changed their perspective to not wanting Lebensraum.
This is a terrible, awful, no good theory. Sorry. See above. When you’re having to deny the reality of German industrial power in the 30’s (the only reason it took the world’s three superpowers to take them down, c’mon McFly, think) in order to keep your theory afloat, it’s the theory that doesn’t work.
Grik – The Jews famously were, and some of the more fanatic/religious still are, even worse than anything you project on Muslems.
Project? No. I’ve projected nothing. Simply stated simple facts.
In fact.. the only time Jews weren’t killing each other and their neighbours off in the name of Yahweh, was when they did not get a chance because occupation and displacement.
Well, I’m glad they’re not occupied or displaced now. And, fuck their neighbours. I’ve never heard of a Jewish grooming gang. Jewish people are not coming here in dinghies to rape white women and children.
The reason Deep Islam is so militant and intolerant, is because , of all things, they copied it straight from the source: the jews
I LEARNED IT FROM YOU, DAD!
Jim – The BEF was the most mechanised army in 1939.
The BEF was three men and a dog compared to Continental armies.
@ Grikath
The Torah instructs Jews to treat aliens well. When a certain Jewish Rabbi in 31 AD said that “the second commandment is Love your neighbour as yourself” he illustrated it with the parable of the Good Samaritan and told the questioner to do likewise – inter alia, treat the Samaritan as his neighbour – there is no record of any religious Jews objecting to this (the NT repeatedly reports when the religious Jews dissent from His teaching) so it would appear that they accepted Leviticus XIX 33 and similar edicts (it’s too late at night to find them all but I know there are lots).
You are just plain WRONG
So why aren’t we routinely at war with the Spanish and French, like we were for centuries?
Relevant
Steve,
“First off, Nazi Germany 1933-1941 was one of the most successful industrial societies on planet Earth. Don’t make me fetch the statistics.”
By what measure? Germany was indebted up to the eyeballs by 1938. Annexing Austria allowed Germany to continue, but they burned through their currency reserves by 1939. There were food supply shortages, even before they kicked off with taking on the UK and Russia. They more than doubled the money supply from 1933 to 1938. There was rationing of goods in 1939. it was an utter disaster.
“Second off, your theory of industrialism = peace carries a sliding timescale. I don’t know if you’ve noticed? Industrialisation leads to peace, UNLESS it’s 1930’s Europe, in which case it wasn’t industrialised enough for peace? Yeah, no.”
As I’ve pointed out, large percentages of the German population weren’t in industrial areas. The parts that were didn’t vote for Hitler.
“This is a terrible, awful, no good theory. Sorry. See above. When you’re having to deny the reality of German industrial power in the 30’s (the only reason it took the world’s three superpowers to take them down, c’mon McFly, think) in order to keep your theory afloat, it’s the theory that doesn’t work.”
Just because you have a massive military doesn’t mean that you’re highly industrialised. It just means that you spent a lot of money on arms. If it was so highly industrialised, why was it skint? Why was it doing scams like MEFO bills and doubling the money supply? Why did it need to go to war in the East, rather than just making tons of money from exporting all those highly desirable industrial goods it produced?
Britain alone outproduced Germany during WW2 in terms of land, sea and air.
Witchie and Norman jointly win the thread!