Although he is as surprised as anyone to find himself an industry figurehead, a position he says is a “privilege”, Kerridge is a natural spokesman. At 52, he has an unassailable position in English cooking, with a gift for taking things Britons actually like to eat (steaks, fish and chips, pies) and honing them to compete with haute cuisine. Above all, he has a gift for pubs. The Hand & Flowers, Kerridge’s pub-with-ideas in Marlow, is the only pub to hold two Michelin stars; the Coach, down the road, has one.
No, that’s a gift for restaurants, not pubs.
That the two are thought to be the same thing these days is one of those proofs of the decline of society.
Ah yes, The Hand and Flowers, the ‘pub’ where Sunday lunch is £195 a head…
There’s a pub near Swindon called The Royal Oak at Bishopstone. It’s owned by Helen Browning, who owns the big organic farm. The Sunday lunch there is all organic food. And I’m not saying that organic itself is better, but it does mean meat hung for longer, veg with more tasty varieties. It’s fantastic, best Sunday lunch I’ve ever had. And it’s more than the average pub, but 3 courses is about £50.
£200 is just I Saw You Coming.
Been there. Agree.
“You can feel that there are going to be a lot of closures. A lot of people are running out of steam, money and energy. The last five to six years for hospitality have been so hard. Most pubs aren’t owned by big companies. There are thousands of individual landlords who live upstairs above the pub, have a passion for what they do and work incredibly long hours.”
I have an unpopular opinion on this, that well, that’s often the problem.
Wetherspoons runs pubs far better than the average publican. Because they aren’t free houses or brewery owned/locally run, but they employ people who do what Head Office tell them to. It’s more like how WH Smith run. Where even things like what goes on what shelf is decided by head office, what promotions go in the window. Because there are a team of experts at head office who do this for their 600 stores. If they sell coffee, it’s because someone at head office has evaluated the best machine, arranged service contracts etc etc. You can also have people at head office analysing the results of things, learning what works.
Go in a Spoons any night of the week, it’s busy. Because instead of pricing at a G&T at £5, it’s about £3.50. 50p margin instead of £2. But it means the local knitting circle meets in Spoons on a Monday night. Six women come in and you sell a dozen G&Ts, that’s £6 of profit. At £5 they won’t come in, and you make £0 profit. Why don’t other pubs open for breakfast? So much of the cost is fixed: pub, kitchen, cutlery, crockery. Serving up some fry-ups needs a cook and a waitress. You don’t have to sell a lot to make that add up. Unlimited coffee for £1.20. Why not? The pub is empty in the morning. The extra cost is hot water, milk, coffee beans. Get a few students in. They might work all day and buy lunch.
We had a family get together in Tewskbury and some of my family stayed at the Weatherspoons and said the rooms were very good.
We met for breakfast on the Sunday morning and it was quite good, but you could only have what was on the menu, mo capping and changing because as they explained, it comes in made up and all they do is bang it in the door warmer. I had Eggs Benedict and it was as good as I’ve had anywhere and probably half the price of the next cheapest.
Anyway, doesn’t their centralised model fly in the face of Tim’s ASI blog blog this morning about Hayek’s knowledge problem? Or, more pertinently, as it appears to be working: Why does their model fly in the face of Hayek’s knowledge problem?
Because Weatherspoons do not need to know everything – they just need to know what will appeal to a large enough minority to cover their direct costs plus a share of overheads.
Detail: one gets someone to do a survey of what the potential client wants, then you try out the menu and prices in one of your pubs and find that observed preferences do not match reported preferences, tweak your offering and try it in another pub, couple more iterations and then you’ve found that enough people are willing to pay enough money for it to be a viable pub.
I should expect regional variations, but not as much (except for the choice of draught beers) as you get in restaurants.
Even if you factor in regional variations the centralised model doesn’t allow for responding quickly to changes in the local environment.
Perhaps the answer is that they haven’t reached the scale where the centralised model breaks down?
The centralized model probably works better for a company than a government because it’s their money they’re working with.
If they get it wrong, they know pretty much immediately because they don’t get as much revenue.
As opposed to government where the income and the expenses are only loosely connected.
I’ve heard the rooms are good. As far as food, yeah, it’s a trade-off. It’s not the best food in a town, but if I’m travelling somewhere then I know it’s reasonable and cheap.
“Anyway, doesn’t their centralised model fly in the face of Tim’s ASI blog blog this morning about Hayek’s knowledge problem? Or, more pertinently, as it appears to be working: Why does their model fly in the face of Hayek’s knowledge problem?”
The difference is that you have people working in a specific domain. They have a lot of understanding of products and customers built up over time and they have a lot of granular data about it. And are motivated to use that data well.
The people running Ikea, M&S, McDonalds have a deep understanding of self-assembly furniture, ladies clothes and fast food. They generally have a very good idea of what will sell to their customers. So you put it out there and see what happens. It might be that it sells well in some places and not others. So you go investigate why.
Look at HS2. The government produces reports about railway use that shows since 2014 a fall in demand for peak rail. HS2 assumes growth in peak rail demand. Not that we need HS2 now, but will in 20 years. But Boris pushed the button on it. You don’t get such irresponsible behaviour at Stagecoach, National Express and Easyjet. They carefully think up a route, one that seems like it’s a good idea, run it and monitor it. From that, they might add more capacity, cancel it, change the route, only run at certain times of the year.
Yeah… but Stagecoach, National Express and Easyjet run on other people’s infrastructure. Dead easy to add, change and remove routes, and with leasing, pretty easy to add or lose capacity.
Building trunk infrastructure to deal with assumed/forecast future demand is another matter. Not that we need HS2, mind. Never did, unless it was for moving EU gendarmes around t short notice. Which it was.
The consideration in this is the cost of being wrong, and that if the cost of being wrong is high, you need to analyse a problem more seriously and allow for a larger margin of error. It cost Disney a lot of money to make Disneyland Paris and so they put a lot of thought into thinking about whether it would work.
Me, an amateur bloke, could easily show that the estimates were wrong and could explain why. It’s in the summary report the ORR produces, which I would assume is the very least that a government minister for rail would look at. Did they look at it? Or just not give a fuck and plough on regardless?
HS2, East West Rail, re-opening rural rail lines in Devon are obviously stupid projects where no due diligence has been applied and instead someone just fancies doing it. And who fucking cares if it’s wrong, because it’s someone else’s money. I don’t really have a lot of complaints about Crossrail. I think it might have been a failure, but barely. Railways work in London.
And further, we have railways that we know are pissing money up the wall, are worse for the environment than cars, and yet they’re still running. Most of the network loses money.
It’s not just the cost of wrong being high, it’s the cost of being wrong with someone else’s money rather than your own.
Recall Friedman’s 4 ways of spending money, from most efficient to least efficient:
Stagecoach, Disney, etc get it expensively wrong, someone’s going to be carrying that can. HS2 is a money bonfire, someone’s still going to get a promotion and a gong.
…because as they explained, it comes in made up and all they do is bang it in the door warmer.
Not my experience. We had breakfast in the Harrogate Wetherspoon’s last June. [Stunning building inside – the former Winter Gardens!] I saw some bacon, eggs etc arriving, supervised by a chef, who said to me “Our breakfasts may be cheap, but the ingredients are high quality and this bacon is locally sourced”. By “locally”, he probably meant ‘Yorkshire’.
No, because Wetherspoons run less than 5% of pubs. Even if half the other ones close (which they might in the next few years), they’ll still only be 10%.
That leaves a lot of different places for people who want something different.
One big problem with that sort of centralisation argument is that it goes from “this seems to suit lots of people” to “this will do for everyone”, and that doesn’t work.
It doesn’t. Hayek is talking about the complications of a national economy, which are vastly greater than the complications of pub chain.
We had a Spoons in Crouch End. Now it’s a Waterstone’s. I went in a couple of times. Unengaged, gormless young staff; annoying old codgers (that’ll be me, then); despite its looks the place was somehow unappealing and unwelcoming. It felt like a factory in lipstick. The Spoons up the road in Muswell Hill is similar. Definitely my last option if a pub is required. The Spoons model doesn’t work everywhere.
Spoons vary a lot. Some are slightly seedy watering holes and some are very nice places. It’s all about what fits the local area. Prices vary massively too. A friend of mine and I often joke it’s cost effective to get a return train ticket to where the prices are cheaper.
Tim Martin probably visited the Crouch End pub, discovered the staff were unengaged, gormless or codgers and the place was unwelcoming, so decided Crouch End with its big Waitrose deserved better. So now its a Waterstones.
Muswell Hill however only has a Little Waitrose and its Spoons may be there to stay.
It’s been there for 20 years. Does seem odd, drinking in a church but…
Er…believers drink wine at communion. Cathedrals host beer festivals, and serve wine at functions. In the middle ages, things could get very lively in the nave…And, in 1 Timothy 5:23, Paul advised: “No longer drink only water, but use a little wine for the sake of your stomach and your frequent ailments”. Most christians approve of alcohol, but disapprove of drunkenness.
You’re not RC then BiS?
I worked in the drinks trade for 8 years and encountered Tim Martin in pubs in Basingstoke and Fareham (the latter now closed) having breakfast when the drivers were delivering (as managers we had to do one ‘crew accompaniment’ every six months or so. Very much as I’d expect – quite ‘no nonsense’ guy who looked like he wouldn’t take any shit. He did insist the drivers and drays got a free drink which put him up in my estimation….
The only point I’m really making is that we keep hearing, endlessly about pubs suffering, but Spoons makes a profit. Now, I’m not saying the government aren’t being wankers, and Spoons themselves put this in their annual report. But they still make a profit.
A bar near me does well. Because the owner just piles things in. Breakfast, lunches, coffee and cake offer in the afternoon, happy hour, dinner, pub sales. On quiet nights, he might bring a band in, do an open mic night. You can use the function room for free in the daytime for your business event. It’s not being used, and it means drink and food. I walk past a pub and most of the time, there’s 2 blokes having a pint.
When I lived in Crouch End there were over 50 restaurants, cafés, pubs, bars & fast food outlets. It’s only a street & a half. The rest seemed to women’s hairdressers & estate agents. Odd place. It’s the night out destination for a large slice of N. London with no public transport apart from the busses & nowhere to park.
Wetherspoons runs pubs far better than the average publican.
Up to a point. I like Wetherspoon’s – I visit often – and they do try to be traditional (eg no music, the basic decor); but they are bars/coffee shops/eateries rolled into one. Rather continental, in some ways; but not a traditional English pub – with carefully cared for real ales, an open fire, a friendly pub dog, and probably oak beams and horse brasses…
That’s one type of traditional English pub. More of a village pub. And sure, they aren’t like that. They also have more food.
But pubs like the Silk Mercer in Devizes, The Commercial Rooms in Bristol are like traditional town pubs I knew as a boy. All dark wood panelling and comfy seating. They have a better choice of ale than the pubs I knew in Northampton as a teenager.
The Sir Daniel Arms in Swindon and the Swan and Castle in Oxford are more modern, but they’re in more modern buildings. and I think that suits the aesthetic more.
Our local pub used to be like that but now it’s really a restaurant with an attached bar. They still ring the changes on guest ales but it’s no longer a regular for me.
“not a traditional English pub – with carefully cared for real ales”
You’ll get a better selection of real ales in Wetherspoons than in at least 80% of British pubs. A choice of regulars and stuff from small breweries that you might never see again, which are worth a try and often worth drinking.
And despite what some people say, the quality is actually good. Mostly because they’re high volume, so the stuff doesn’t hang around (try a ‘traditional’ pub on a Tuesday and your ale has probably been on since Saturday evening, and in most places – even ‘traditional’ ones – it’ll be a bit tired at best).
I’ve only twice had a pint in a Wetherspoons that tasted a bit off, and both times it was replaced without any problem.
There are things you could criticise them for, but lack of decent real ale is not one of them.
Spoons’ beer model is that they buy in quantity and at a heavy discount drink that’s approaching the end of its shelf life, knowing that their high volumes will enable them to shift it before it goes off. A standard pub can’t compete with this, which is why their beer is up to 50% cheaper.
I’ve no problem with ‘Spoons, it does what it says on the tin and at a very good price.
Although that did sound sensible to me, they do claim that’s a myth, and that no-one has dared print it:
https://www.jdwetherspoon.com/news/killing-off-an-urban-myth/
Brother has been a publican. He told me decades back that they did this. But not on everything, not at all. Just if there was some stock flaoting around. That padded margins overall, but it’s not the major tactic for the group.
And why not? I have no problem consuming stuff near its end-of-life if still good and palatable. The chest freezer is stuffed with M&S yellow-label protein purchased at typically 30% off. Suits me.
If a beer is enjoyable, it’s enjoyable. What else is it for?
If a beer is enjoyable, it’s enjoyable. What else is it for?
You are a wise man.
It’s the sort of thing that fits with people’s perceptions because it’s cheap. Therefore, corners must be being cut. But the truth is, they fill seats in pubs like no-one else. The cost of staff, premises gets divided across a lot more pints.
Like Mcdonalds was cheap, therefore bad. But all McDonalds did was to make a diner much more efficient. No waitresses, no plates and cutlery, turn the kitchen into a production line.
Thanks for that!!
I’ve heard this said, but I don’t really believe it. Not saying that they never buy ‘short dated’ stock, but I suppose that they mostly buy their beer on long term contracts.
Not knocking Wetherspoon’s, but I’m not sure I can get “a better selection of real ales in Wetherspoons” than in many British pubs, because most of the Wetherspoon’s real ales are brief guests. All you can rely on in Wetherspoon’s is – to my taste – Doom Bar (nice, mild but no bite) ) and Abbott (too sweet and malty – inferior to Adnams’ Broadside), though both are very reasonably priced at Spoons.
Theo, I’m genuinely puzzled by your comment – why do you say a range of “brief” guest beers does not constitute a “selection”?
When you’re stood at the bar looking at what to drink, how does it matter whether they’re regulars or “brief guests”?
Because a brief selection does not allow discernment. I like to ‘get to know’ a beer and explore it, as flavours can vary, depending on curation. A new barrel of Adnams Old Ale is gorgeous, but it’s vinegary towards the end of a slow-moving barrel…
Today, I spent the morning sawing logs and working up a thirst, but then quenched my thirst in my local with two fine pints of Earl Soham’s Victoria bitter…
Having a large selection and keeping them around don’t seem to mix well.
Your taste is likely not the same as many others. Having fifty or a hundred selections on the off chance that someone will buy one more than once means a lot of them will be sitting there.
Which is also why the menu gets smaller over time.
Mrs Grist and I have always had different ideas of the perfect pub. To me, the prime consideration is the customers, then the beer and lastly, the decor. We go to a pub as a couple more nowadays, because most of my old drinking crew are either dead or not in the same shape they were, but the number of pubs I actually enjoy going to for a drink has decreased in number to a handful. My favourite pub, long gone, was “Bert’s place” off Hatton Garden, where the excellent beer was accompanied by food for the hungry. It was not an extensive choice as befits the best eating places, but it was good. Mrs Bert slaved away at the end of the counter producing two types of sandwiches on lovely crusty Bloomer bread, ham or cheese…
The Hand and Flowers isn’t really a pub. We went there for a birthday lunch last year on a £85 a head deal. It really was good. The Coach isn’t really a pub either although you can just drink there. Food’s good, prices steep for glorified pub food. The Butcher’s Tap, also Kerridge, is a real pub with a Butcher’s shop inside. All of his places are done properly. Quality ingredients, very good service.
But now I live in Lincolnshire, a county that does not seem to be on the Michelin map.
I’m surprised there’s nothing in Stamford.
Not exactly nothing, but nothing special I’ve found yet. Love the town though.
Agree. First visited it a month ago, after a lifetime of driving past on the A1. Most attractive and interesting. Known downsides?
As usual, parking. Go on market day, that’s Friday. And try Oakham while you’re nearby.
Thanks, rhoda.
But one starred place in nearby Oakham, also a pretty good town. Turns out there is one in Lincs, but on the Humber, so practically Yorks.
Thanks, rhoda.
Ohh yes The George.
Thanks HB, I’ll remember that. Any downsides to Stamford?
Stamford is historic, beautiful and has some very fine medieval churches. Yet, IMVHO, Stamford – somehow – lacks the charm and vigour of (say) Bury St Edmunds or Ludlow or even scruffy Kings Lynn…
I know Ludlow but have never been to the other two and know nothing of them, save that KL hospital is allegedly the country’s worst. Mmm.
Pubs died when they banned smoking.
Centuries of tradition and the traditional liberties of British adults were suddenly forced out into the freezing dark.
As smoking declined, so did Western civilisation. Nobody knew what a “trans woman” was in the days when you could enjoy a Marlboro Light with your pint, and a pouch of baccy didn’t cost £50 fucking quid.
Smoking is cool. We should all smoke fags again and then find Real Man and bully him irl
Don’t like smoke, and coming home smelling of ashtrays, but smoking solves the pensioner/NHS problem. Banning it was a huge act of fiscal self-harm.
It’s the social aspect I miss. Fags were a great way of getting to know people, the smoking room in the office was great for networking
Why have you posted an early photo of David Attenborough?
2028: Steve, having been proved wrong about conscription, attempts to shitpost on Tim Worstall dot com by letter
smoking solves the pensioner/NHS problem
Highly debatable. Smokers often spend a very long and expensive time expiring…like diabetics. Though our host agrees with you.
Dying is bloody horrible whichever way you look at it. May God spare us all from the big c, but I don’t like the idea of being (more) demented and not able to go to the toilet by myself either. That’s grim.
So my plan is to never die.
I knew some of the team who worked on the infamous Arthur D Little report for Peter Stuyvesant and they swore blind they didn’t have their finger on the scale.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_Finance_Balance_of_Smoking_in_the_Czech_Republic
They didn’t. It’s just not politically correct.
…the traditional liberties of British adults were suddenly forced out…
Not for non-smokers!
Smokers, inconsiderately and often arrogantly, treated the world as their ashtray, as they irrationally indulged in their self-harming (and rather dirty) habit. Now, <12% of the UK population smoke…
Yesterday, walking through some remote coastal marshes and enjoying the fresh sea air, my nostrils detected a sickly, fruity scent – and, within a couple of minutes, a vaper arrived on the path, puffing away. What is wrong with such people?
I do not recall being in a pub which did not have an area suitable for those who dislike tobacco smoke (as distinct from other non-smokers like myself) – usually called the “Lounge Bar”.
The Rising Sun in Romford had a ‘No Smoking area’, deliberately set right in the middle of the pub, so there was no way you could avoid breathing the filth in.The landlord was clearly taking the piss.
And who could forget the pictures, and just how effective the ‘For the comfort of our patrons who do not smoke, the left side of this auditorium has been designated a no smoking area’ was, where you saw the light from the projector highlighting the clouds of fag smoke wafting everywhere throughout the cinema.
Smoking in pubs – good riddance.
Now, <12% of the UK population smoke…
Sho?
my nostrils detected a sickly, fruity scent – and, within a couple of minutes, a vaper arrived on the path, puffing away. What is wrong with such people?
This is what I mean. Smoking was a very adult hobby. I know, when I started smoking at school, it was because we all wanted to be thought of as cool grown ups. Only the div kid tried sparking up in the conmon room tho.
Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar, but smoking was intimately connected to sex. If she smokes, she pokes, amirite? I bet you a fiver that smokers do more shagging per capita.
Now, of course, we live in a strangely feminised, arrested development society where people in their 30’s aren’t having sex. So they suck on nicotine sweeties like a toddler with a dummy. Sad!
Ayn Rand, that magnificent virago of freedom, smoked like a chimney and went like the clappers. We should be more Randy. Atlas Had A Relaxing Post Coital
John – all my local thatched room and aunt sally pubs had already just completed expensively installed safe smoking areas, where the fumes would have been hermanshermetically sealed away from the delicate nostrils of non-smokers.
Cost a small fortune in high capacity fans and building work, to comply with gov legislation. Tens of thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands, of pubs and restaurants affected? The ban pulled the rug from under them, left them out of pocket, drove off a lot of punters. Not good for small local businesses, but many such cases!
I used to have a great local pub a short walk away. It regularly won CAMRA pub of the season, loads of good ales, was really busy. And I’m not keen on smoke but they had a non-smoking end of the pub and I didn’t really notice it.
The owner had a lucky escape. He went to Wales on holiday, and it was after the ban there. Went into a pub and had a friendly chat with the landlord and realised how fucked he was going to be. Asked around a few more pubs. Came home and accepted Fuller’s offer to buy it.
It would be alright if the world smelt good without tobacco smoke. How often does it? Go into a crowded bar now, smoke free. Sweaty armpits, stale booze, cheap aftershave & perfume & deodorants that don’t. Second hand curry or kebab breath with a hint of farts. And non-smokers themselves often had often have curious odours. The TCP they put on their skin ailments.
Now, <12% of the UK population smoke…
But 88% are pussies…
The ‘sickly, fruity scent’ isn’t tobacco, it’s the ‘adult’ children again wanting something sweet but also wanting to pretend they’re grown up.
It’s the same as those children’s milkshakes they pretend are coffee. Or those ‘craft beers’ for people who only really like lager or alcopops but want to pretend they’re having a proper drink.