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Good question

So the real question is not, is there a deficit? The real question is, why is there a deficit, and what does it mean?

It’s because the gurning morons are pissing our money up against the wall.

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Bloke in South Dorset
Bloke in South Dorset
1 month ago

And because his theory that government spending creates more money than it costs is wrong.

jgh
jgh
1 month ago

One of the things I used to ponder was the game Monopoly. It doesn’t reflect the real world – there is an end point where the bank runs out of money and nobody can earn any more “wages”, and you count everything up to see who has “won”. In the real world the economy doesn’t just “stop”. It would not surprise me if a significant number of people get their idea of how the economy works from Monopoly.

From time to time I’ve pondered how you could modify the playing rules to more reflect the real world where as long as you are prepared to “work” – ie, continue passing GO – you continue to receive wages, regardless of how much “money” the bank has. As a child I experimented with players being able to pay with cheques instead of “cash”.

I suppose passing GO isn’t wages but more akin to universal basic income. There needs to be a method of preventing the bank running out of “money” – it can run out of bits of paper, but it should be possible to not run out of being able to make payments to people.

Bloke in South Dorset
Bloke in South Dorset
1 month ago
Reply to  jgh

Monopoly … there is an end point where the bank runs out of money”

We never got to that point; someone would always win first by bankrupting everyone else.

Bloke in South Dorset
Bloke in South Dorset
1 month ago
Reply to  jgh

 It would not surprise me if a significant number of people get their idea of how the economy works from Monopoly.”

That was actually why it was invented – to show the supposed wickedness of private ownership of property, and to encourage support for a Georgist land value tax.

However the way of winning seems to turn most players into Randian cutthroat capitalists.

Bloke in Wales
Bloke in Wales
1 month ago
Reply to  jgh

At school, we “privatised” the Monopoly jail, by auctioning them after someone had passed go. The owner kept the fines collected.

I think we also privatised the parking, but I can’t remember how that one worked.

Starfish
Starfish
1 month ago
Reply to  Bloke in Wales

We put all fines etc into the middle of the board and anyone landing on free parking scooped the stash

Chris Miller
Chris Miller
1 month ago
Reply to  jgh

Monopoly “was intended as an educational tool to illustrate the negative aspects of concentrating land in private monopolies”. (source WikiP)

Excvator Man
Excvator Man
1 month ago

Of course he’s wrong, because he can’t do basic arithmetic. But there is a certain amount of truth in the idea that when the Government doles out money to people, then it claws back a certain amount of it in a variety of taxes – VAT, income taxes and other things like fuel duty. The clawback can never exceed the initial outlay, and may indeed be a very small percentage once the cost of collecting it is included.

Bloke in South Dorset
Bloke in South Dorset
1 month ago
Reply to  Excvator Man

But if the government hadn’t taxed people to spend their money in the first place, the people would have had more money to spend, and their spending would have generated profits, employment and therefore tax itself.

So even your limited version only holds true if the government spending generates more tax than the private spending would have done.

andyf
andyf
1 month ago

A great example of the gurning moron effect is that the Covid enquiry has so far cost £200 million. Well over half of this is legal fees and the final bill is expected to be £300 million.

Despite this vast cost it has failed to spotlight that the lockdowns have been a key contributor to the erosion of the work ethic that now makes everyone poorer.

Chris Miller
Chris Miller
1 month ago
Reply to  andyf

But it has driven several more stakes through the heart of the festering corpse that is BoJo’s political career, which is worth a few hundred million of any (Labour) voter’s money.

Geoffers
Geoffers
1 month ago

And, as can be seen from warships that can’t sail to murdered prisoners* to potholed roads to declining health measures to record levels of tax, government has been so demonstrably wasteful and unproductive that I don’t see how any reasonable person could want it to assume more responsibility.

*I don’t mourn Huntley, but the number of times he’s been attacked over the years beggars belief – his jailers have either been complicit or incompetent and neither conclusion speaks well of them.

Tractor Gent
Tractor Gent
1 month ago
Reply to  Geoffers

I expect it’s hard to stop motivated prisoners from spotting their opportunities. It’s also hard to find staff at the rates they pay prison officers who are moral paragons. Plenty of stuff in the press about POs who do stuff they shouldn’t. And governors…

Last edited 1 month ago by Tractor Gent
Addolff
Addolff
1 month ago
Reply to  Tractor Gent

Huntley wore a Manchester United shirt with the number 10 on it, 10 years after he had murdered these two girls.

Whatever was done to him inside wasn’t enough…..

Ed P
Ed P
1 month ago

Does the potato know the difference between a deficit and a debt? I doubt it: his train set lacks both, due to under-funding (deficit) and no electricity supply (dept). Idiot

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