However, it may not always have been like this. Research suggests that in the Victorian era and early 20th century, Northern Ireland was much more tolerant and accepting of gay men.
“I was expecting to find repression but there was a sort of benevolent toleration,” said Tom Hulme, a historian at Queen’s University Belfast and author of Belfastmen: An Intimate History of Life Before Gay Liberation, which is published this week.
“Among friends and families and employers it was sort of known and understood that a man may have desires for another man and that might be why they remain unmarried or live alone or have many close male friends.
“To reveal the open secret would have been problematic. While these things remained unsaid they could essentially kind of exist. We’re not talking about people walking down the streets, holding hands. It’s a much more closed, secret kind of culture.”
Hulme said tacit ignorance and public silence enabled male queerness to flourish with only rare exposure, condemnation or regulation, with a “live and let live” ethos especially prevalent in the working class.
Mrs. Patrick Campbell’s not in the streets where you’ll frighten the horses idea comes to mind. And is also, around and about what most places were like, no? Certainly, that’s what I’ve always assumed.
Yes, there were hangings for sodomy, so it wasn’t all sweetness and light – I have a strong suspicion that some to many of those were for rape, not consensual as well. But, agreed, not all.
I’m also amused by this:
In the 1980s and 1990s, the Royal Ulster Constabulary used plainclothes officers to bait and catch gay men in parks and public toilets.
It’s wholly possible to be actively ignorant about what happens behind closed doors and also think that cottaging ain’t all that great. Though in very recent times I have seen some argue that cottaging is their ‘uman right, see, which does seem to be taking matters much too far.
To be arrested, charged and jailed was an “awful” ordeal for gay men, but on release many returned to their former lives, with communities turning a blind eye to sexual orientation as long as there was discretion, said Hulme. “A careful game goes on between gay men and their friends and families. Knowing nods and winks, ‘oh, he’s not the marrying type’.”
Quite.
The problem with so much history is that you weren’t there and what was official and unofficial is often not known. We rely on sources like government and newspapers that do not paint a complete picture of life.
What is written in law and how much it gets prosecuted are two different things.
Yep. The past is constantly changing.
And the future isn’t what it used to be.
Einstein explained the illusion of simultaneity of time. But there are greater factors than just speed.
The Great Myth of modern times is that it was illegal to be gay.
It was not. Bumming was the issue: and related sexual offences.
Just read some EF Benson, it is outrageusly camp writing. In fact the entire Benson family, including parents, was gay or bisexual.
I recently did a project on the writer and critic Jocelyn Brooke, whose writing is full of not very subtle hints. Look at Denton Welch, blimey his writing is so fay, it is almost a parody.
As well as Biblical morals to consider, there were public health issues where bumming was concerned.
And indeed it was true : get on with things discreetly and not be a pillock like Turing was and the rozxers will never knock at your ( front ) door.
Expression of ‘surprise’ that there were a lot of gays kicking about 100 years ago, just shows how all pervasive this myth has become.
Indeed. I don’t imagine Plod was smashing down the doors of houses where two gentlemen happened to be ‘sharing accommodation’.
Exactly. “Being” can’t be illegal, as “legal” defines what *actions* you are permitted to do. *Being* something isn’t an action, *being* something cannot be illegal, as something being illegal is specifying an action that is prohibited. You are allowed *to*….. You are not allowed *to*….
See also: most times, most places.
It is one of life’s many bitter ironies that we live in a time filled with wankers declaring that the hellish past (generally up to 2023) was nothing but misery and oppression, when many of us remember it being better on many fronts. Another irony being that said wankers are less tolerant than a Mary Whitehouse-supporting WI lady from the 60s.
It turns out that if you don’t insist on forcing your sexual proclivities – figuratively of course – down everybody’s throats, they don’t really care what you get up to in the privacy of your own home.
“ ….. might be why they remain unmarried or live alone or have many close male friends …..” … of course had they been Catholic they could join the clergy and also have access to young choir boys …..
The C of E was not far behind in that respect.
The Church of England is nonexistent in Northern Ireland.
Church of Ireland it was. And did exist, and not very much now.
The Church of Ireland is the Anglican Church in Ireland, North and Republic.
That’s because it’s the Church of Ireland. A bit over quarter of a million members in the six counties.
The writer predictably ignores the intolerance, to put it mildly, of recent arrivals to the Emerald Isle where homosexuality is concerned.
In the clash of cultures I doubt if the article’s back-slapping celebration of “that sort of thing” will come out (slight pun intended) victorious.
Just like England then.
And yet, an uncle of mine appeared to be a “confirmed bachelor” until one day he wasn’t, giving us 24 hour’s notice of his marriage to a very nice women. When she died he settled down with another and stayed with her until his death at 89. He never needed a beard.
Half a century ago, homos had the good sense to keep it to themselves. A severe beating could result if discovered.
Reminds me of the superlative comedy ‘Soap’ where Billy Crystal’s gay character goes to Texas and meets his friend’s mother.
“Are you a homo ? It’s just that I ain’t never met one before. Leastaways not a live one…”