New Zealand has announced it is banning new prescriptions of puberty-blocking drugs for young transgender people, in a move that critics warned could worsen the mental health of those affected.
If you start from one extreme, that there’s no such thing as gender dysphoria in teens, then obviously this is good. If you move one step to a slightly milder position – about my own – which is that humans can believe qll sorts of things which are not, in fact true, and that this one generally clears up with puberty itself, then this is also good news. Let us attempt the most effective cure we know of before anything else.
Other views don’t matter here of course.
Opinions Here Are, As They Say, Divided
Between those who think people who feed puberty blockers should be strung up and those who think they should be fed to lions?
or do you have any other incentives to make them behave in mind?
Shirley doing anything which interferes with the normal development of a young person is child abuse?
When you hit eighteen, do WTF you like; cut your tits off, have your knob turned into a gaping wound that’ll never heal, listen to Coldplay and Oasis, whatever.
I’d draw the line at Coldplay.
‘Other views don’t matter here of course.’
But they will be the ones amplified by the MSM
The decision resulted from a health ministry finding of a lack of “high-quality evidence that demonstrates the benefits or risks”, Brown added in a statement.
We’ve talked about this before – Mamma Cass was shocked at the bullshit masquerading as “peer approved” “studies” into tranny “healthcare”. The entire field was taken over by activist trannies some years ago and they’ve been eagerly churning out junk research papers from their nests in the fever swamps of academia.
But that means responsible adults have been asleep at the wheel. You would think the NHS would be naturally cautious about giving novel growth-retarding drugs to children for a psychological symptom. You would be wrong.
The ban will have a devastating impact on the lives and wellbeing of transgender and gender-diverse young people in New Zealand, said Elizabeth McElrea, an official with a transgender health body.
“The ban will lead to worsening mental health, increased suicidality and dysphoria for gender-diverse children and young people,” McElrea, the vice-president of the Professional Association for Transgender Health Aotearoa, said in a statement.
It would bring a higher risk of experiencing marginalisation and discrimination for them, she added.
This is the usual tranny litany of threats if you don’t do what they demand – they’ll kill themselves, and you’re a hatey hateful hater out to ‘marginalise’ them. (What could be more marginalising than pretending to be the sex you’re not?). They’ve been suicide baiting for years. It’s considered a horrible form of emotional abuse when a narcissist threatens to unalive himself if you don’t give him what he wants, but it’s SOP for the gender benders.
Btw Aotearoa is cannibal for “New Zealand”. In Clown World, it’s not enough to castrate your children, you must also engage in ritualised racial self abasement for the achievements of your ancestors.
Treatment decisions should be made by doctors, young people and their parents, said Shanan Halbert, spokesperson for opposition party Labour on rainbow issues.
And that’s the problem. They’re treating this as a ‘rainbow issue’, part of the neverending Gramscian whine of minority interests. The appeal to authority – ‘doctors’ – is cute, given what we now know about how doctors simply took the recommendations of WPATH – a tranny pressure group masquerading as a medical association – at face value. Note the given order in which the concerns of parents come last.
Hilary Cass is a doctor.
‘ said Elizabeth McElrea, an official with a transgender health body.’
You can read that two ways.
Fever swamps of academia. I wish I’d said that. (You will, Michael, you will.)
They can all open a vein tomorrow as far as I am concerned and I look back longingly at the time when they were so marginalised we never heard from them. BTW, when I saw “they” I mean the hairy-arsed fetishists and nonces in frocks, not the troubled teens they should be kept well away from.
Marius I understand completely, but even Gollum could be redeemed. I hate for anybody to kill themselves, it’s such an evil waste and inevitably leaves behind emotional wreckage for the survivors. Even people I hate have parents, children, siblings who don’t deserve to have to suffer the suicide of a family member.
That’s one of the things that tipped me off about the whole tranny thing being bullshit. I’ve tried to kill myself before, and I know plenty of others who have done the same, or succeeded. Suicidal people don’t make incessant rote claims of imminent self-harm if they don’t get their own way, they just quietly go off and kill themselves. They’re not on social media all day sharing porn and making threats to rape JK Rowling.
Suicide is such a monstrous and horrible thing it’s disgusting that trans activists have adopted it as a bullying tactic.
Here in the US we were told that “THE SCIENCE” was settled & mutilating kids saved lives: “do you want a live son or a dead daughter?”. This was treated as absolute truth for years before anyone got around to looking at the crappy half-assed studies that were used to make these claims.
Funny how that works, a study that supports what the lefties like is accepted with no questions, anything that runs contrary is reported (if it is reported) as controversial & preliminary.
“do you want a live son or a dead daughter?”
As they point out on a domestic violence site:
When your partner threatens suicide frequently, it’s a form of emotional abuse playing on your feelings of love and fear for them.
Suicide baiting is one of the most evil things people can do to each other, it’s a real headfuck. So doctors, activists and miscellaneous perverts have been running this abusive script on parents to force consent to the physical destruction of their children… there aren’t enough lions.
Yup, suicide threats and half-assed attempts are blackmail pure and simple.
Btw occasional feminism correspondent Carrie is unhappy
The EHRC, which hates trans people, has leaked its trans guidance to The Times, which hates trans people, in an attempt to bully the Equalities Minister into approving it. But no amount of positive spin can hide the fundamental point: the EHRC wants trans people’s rights to access spaces to be dependent on how they look, and enforced by the public.
The ECHR and the Times hate “trans people”. Well, to know them is to love them.
They’re demanding a permanent, state-sanctioned witch-hunt by sour-faced curtain twitchers and SAVE ARE KIDS roundabout painters for whom anyone tall, butch, unconventional, not pretty enough, not white enough is Goody Proctor dancing with the Devil.
Carrie wants you to think that not allowing men into the women’s toilets means They – the shadowy Christofascist international interests Carrie blames for the rapidly declining public sympathy for transgender – will be coming for anybody who looks different.
As Wil Wheaton said in Stand By Me said:
“No, Ace… just you”.
Unless you take the extreme as true – that gender dysphoria is not a thing – then you have to accept that for those teens that do have it, the process of going through puberty will be extremely distressing, and will lead to additional surgery further down the line.
At which point, we need to have reliable figures about how many do have it and can’t do something about it, and how many only think they have it and do go on to do something about it. That latter group being the fear for over prescription, the former being the fear for under prescription.
And suddenly everyone gets very hand-wavey and recites anecdotes, or defaults to “I don’t believe it exists” and other opinion based arguments. The scientific literature seems to be a choice between transgender care professionals (we can guess their results), or the weird only-in-America Christian Faith science groups (we can also guess their results). Both are quoted in mainstream scientific journals, with the most recent study coming from the pro-trans lot.
I’ve commented on here before, since I’ve worked with a couple of trans women over the years and feel fairly confident that they do indeed exist. It’s very hard to feel positive towards arguments being put by people who believe an invisible space fairy should dictate medicine and politics. But then so much of politics seems to be more about Faith than anything these days.
Hullo Andrew
Unless you take the extreme as true – that gender dysphoria is not a thing – then you have to accept that for those teens that do have it, the process of going through puberty will be extremely distressing, and will lead to additional surgery further down the line.
Hmm. Gender dysphoria is, like “back pain”, almost impossible for a clinician to diagnose. They just have to take the patient’s word for it. Also like back pain, it’s a vague excuse drug seeking patients overuse because they’ve already decided they “need” drugs and their complaints are carefully curated to elicit the desired response from the doctor.
But unlike back pain, it’s a psychological problem that cannot be fixed with surgery.
Puberty is not “extremely distressing” and is not a disease. The vast majority of gender confused youth grow out of it – as long as they’re kept away from the medical pipeline to transgender.
since I’ve worked with a couple of trans women over the years
No you haven’t, you worked with men wearing knickers.
It’s very hard to feel positive towards arguments being put by people who believe an invisible space fairy
When the Invisible Space Fairy knows the difference between men and women, and you don’t, it seems to me the Invisible Space Fairy is winning.
The irony of suggesting it’s the Xtians who are irrational, while you believe “trans women are women”, will be lost on you. And it’s goodnight from him.
And right on cue, we have arm waving and made up stories. You’re very predictable, Steve.
You could have saved all that wind and just said you don’t believe gender dysphoria is a thing. Faith is all that matters, right?
It’s definitely a thing, and that thing is a mental illness.
Body integrity dysphoria definitely exists.
Imagine if doctors sawed off people’s healthy arms and limbs so their body matches their self identification.
Hi Andy – yes, I’m familiar with your debating tactics.
*Make factually incorrect claims about medical science (“trans women are women”)
* Wrap it up in a non sequitur to hopefully baffle the reader into thinking you made a logical point (“gender dysphoria exists, therefore we must prescribe hormone pills to children “)
* Answer any criticism of your arguments by accusing the critic of “arm waving” and”making up stories” (no examples ever given, we both know why)
It’s all very tiresome. But so easy to dissect.
I’m not sure it’s possible to squeeze more strawmen arguments into one response – well done you!
Let’s start with the basics – the Cass report, that went to great lengths to survey the “state of global medical science” on gender stuff… is quite clear that trans people exist and the most successful outcome for them is to be treated as the gender they identify as. As a layman, I’m kinda happy that a report that took four years to put together and references 103 sources is probably more “science” than an angry bloke on the internet.
On strawmen – where did I say we must prescribe anything? A moment’s googling shows that of the thousands of kids who’ve been referred to gender clinics, we’ve never given hormones to more than 4%, just 1 in 25. How am I meant to trust the people who scream about the kids all being turned trans, when it’s an easily checked lie?
We can also test your view that it doesn’t exist, or the variation that it’s a temporary mental illness like anorexia. If either were true we’d see two things: (1) Lots of studies showing patients recovering from dysphoria without medical treatment and (2) really high regret rates for transition.
Where are those clinics that show 99% of patients being “cured” of being trans? Where are the tens of thousands of regretful transitioners? There should be class action lawsuits and mass protests! I checked and there was meant to be a lawsuit against the Tavistock clinic – just one clinic – from a thousand ex patients. It didn’t happen, because it was made up. They couldn’t find a thousand traumatised teens, or a hundred or apparently even ten. There is exactly no evidence to back up your theory.
And the criticism is real – you cite no sources, provide no evidence, make no logical argument other than “Nah, don’t believe it” and then get sulky when you’re called out.
Just to hammer it home, if you were right, the regret rate would be sky high. The most recent study on 90,000 trans people in the USA shows that only 0.36% who transitioned later decided they weren’t trans. Frankly I don’t care if it’s a genetic thing, a birth defect, a mental illness or an allergy to cat farts – if 99.6% of people who receive medical treatment still feel trans after all that, then what the hell is your right to stop them?
I appreciate that you’re much more in favour of evidence free assertions, but reputable science really isn’t on your side.
Finally, on the call for the “most effective cure” – you know what, that sounds like a good idea. Let’s look at the States that have banned gender clinics and see how the kids are doing (pesky evidence). We should see lots of kids magically getting better when they hit puberty. That’s the promise isn’t it? Oh – the American Medical Association and the American Academy of Paediatrics both report significantly worse outcomes, and say studies of the bans show that gender care is “medically necessary, evidence-based, and often life-saving”.
Who am I meant to trust, Angry Steve and the sky fairies, or the American Medical Association and the real-world outcomes of existing bans?
Oh, and a late thought. I’m not “debating” – this isn’t an argument over who believes strongest. I’m annoyed by all the bullshitters and God-botherers who seem to crop up whenever this stuff turns up in the news, and that prompted me to look at what the real-world evidence is.
And it didn’t come as any surprise at all to see that the evidence just doesn’t agree with the groups who traditionally make stuff up because they believe this is an argument, and that you decide science by shouting louder than the other guys.
Good evening Mr Mountbatten Windsor.
I’m not sure it’s possible to squeeze more strawmen arguments into one response – well done you!
Let’s start with the basics – the Cass report, that went to great lengths to survey the “state of global medical science” on gender stuff… is quite clear that trans people exist and the most successful outcome for them is to be treated as the gender they identify as. As a layman, I’m kinda happy that a report that took four years to put together and references 103 sources is probably more “science” than an angry bloke on the internet.
Wurzel Gummidge says not really, that doesn’t appear in the official list of key findings or recommendations, so no. Not something it went to “great lengths” on. The Cass Report admitted it has no idea to what degree the epidemic like explosion in supposed gender distress amongst girls was caused by “psychological”, “social” or “biological” (wot? are there more hermaphrodites than usual?), and generally recommended caution. It was, writ in cosy NHS Labour voting polite management speak, a ruddy big Grapple X detonated over the heads of this entire woo-woo bullshit medical franchise. Not so much the resounding thumbs up to cock salami you described.
Do I sound angry to you? Rargh. Steve smash!
Where are the tens of thousands of regretful transitioners?
Quite a lot of them popping up now on social media. But I think most detrans are naturally deeply unlikely to broadcast that to the world? For obvious reasons, I’m sure. Just a guess though, based on my take on humans.
There should be class action lawsuits
Like Keira Bell.
Frankly I don’t care if it’s a genetic thing, a birth defect, a mental illness or an allergy to cat farts – if 99.6% of people who receive medical treatment still feel trans after all that, then what the hell is your right to stop them?
Ever see that South Park episode where the Nambla guy gives a tearjerking speech about the need for tolerance and understanding, then one of the boys says “yeah, but dude… you •••• children” ?
You don’t care if the 50x increase in girls referred to gender clinics in only 10 years is classic social contagion, much like the previous anorexia fads – as long as they still “feel trans” after taking powerful drugs and getting “gender surgery”? Dude, you want teenagers to be castrated or mastectomied. I don’t think this is the reasonable man argument you thought it was.
Anyway, I don’t think the transgender fad is on an upward slope of either social acceptance or new members. Seems to have peaked, and lost the cultural power it had when, for example, big global media companies were keen to promote “Call me Caitlyn” Jenner. That abrupt side shimmy you saw from the sinuous, strictly Sir Keir – no longer believes trans women are women, gor blimey no guv and I never did, did I? – pay attention to the world class weasely wind sniffers. The institutional class is Homer, backing into the hedge as gracefully as it can manage.
The Cass Report is just the beginning.
He said angrily. x
Body dysphoria takes many forms, but we don’t treat anorexics by amputating healthy parts of their body until they’re at what they perceive to be their ‘correct’ weight.
To cut down my weight, off comes my left leg – I pass the Swimming Costume Test
Body dysmorphia is definitely a thing.
An extremely rare thing.
It’s also a mental illness, not a physical one.
Genuine Sufferers have my sympathy and should be given pills and all the therapy to accept that no, they aren’t the gender they believe they are and it isn’t going to change.
No amount of mutilation surgery is going to change reality, no lifetime of horrendous chemicals needed to ‘transition’ is actually going to turn someone from MtF or FtM. At best, they become a facsimile of their desired gender.
Some teenagers get a bit wonky as they develop, most sort themselves out as they age.
On the other hand, pervs who try it on so they can do nasty things to vulnerable people, who do it to get their kicks out of being a man in the women’s changing rooms, like that weirdo who was tweeting about asking 14 year old girls for tampons in a public toilet, or the ones who go online to convince confused teenagers that they’re gender dysmorphic or some other bollocks, they deserve to be given an all expenses paid trip to Gaza or downtown Kabul so they can preach their self-evident (according to them) truth to the inhabitants of those areas.
As a rabid reactionary, I think simple hanging is the way to deal with the pervs.
But of course, if I ran things, the whole world would consist of bodies hanging from the nearest trees.