Discussing taxation, Mr Miliband said: “This is in the news at the moment because yesterday the chairman of Boots started telling people how to vote in the UK general election. Well, it turns out that the chairman of Boots lives in Monaco and is actually avoiding his taxes.
“Now, I’ve just got to say to you, I don’t think people in Britain are going to take kindly to being lectured by somebody who’s avoiding his taxes on how they should be voting at the UK general election.
Eh? Pessano is Italian. How does a foreigner live in foreign avoid taxes in the Uk by living in foreign?
Even in Richard Murphy’s wildest wet dreams the UK tax system doesn’t extend to foreigners living in foreign.
I agree, except for the bit about Richard Murphy’s wildest wet dreams – a subject I’ve not given a lot of thought to, but not one I feel we’re qualified to place limits around either.
It seems that Ed Milliband’s function is to make Cameron look less of a twat.
It troubles me far more that Ed Miliband goes around telling people how to vote and lecturing them on how he wants to spend their taxes.
If you’re going to be attacked in politics then it’s best coming from a foreign exec based in a tax haven. Even for Miliband it would have been a no brainer. Remove gloves, crack the knuckles, short run up and in you go.
What would Gareth say?
I would have thought being told what to do by foreigners was fundamental to Labour’s philosophy.
Tim you r@cist.
Just because he has a foreign sounding name you think he’s not British and that just because he lives and works abroad (from here), and has the cheek to not hold a British passport you imagine he is not be part of our courageous state.
Well Ed is right you shouldn’t influence political opinion if you don’t pay income tax! Unless you are a labour voting net tax recipient. Which is one of the reasons Ed doesn’t want to pull the poor out of the income tax base as then of course as how can he farm their votes with benefits when they actually get to keep there own money.
“Earlier on Monday Ed Balls, Labour’s shadow chancellor, increased the criticism by suggesting the Conservatives are enlisting Gary Barlow, the Take That singer, in a plot to destabilise the Labour Party.”
Is there no end to the evil of them Tories?
it’s “Pessina”, Tim
Miliband set up a tax wheeze to avoid IHT on his dad’s house, and used expenses rules to flip residences and avoid CGT on his house – he bloody well *does* live here and still tries to get out of paying tax, so I suspect he’d better keep his trap shut on this one
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Look! Italians who live in Monaco and are employed by Swiss subsidaries of American multi-nationals are clearly avoiding tax by not living here.
On the other hand if you’re the leader of the Labour party and implemented a ‘deed of variance’ to make your dad’s will more IHT efficient you’re just being sensible.
There is no hypocrisy at all.
But he’s chairman of Boots, which is like British or something even though it’s not any more. But it trades in the UK, so, like, he should pay British income tax or something.
I guess that makes almost every multinational exec whose company trades in the UK liable for UK income tax then. Good luck with that.
“I don’t think people in Britain are going to take kindly to being lectured by somebody who’s avoiding his taxes”
Well thats every member and former member of the European Commission that can shut their traps for starters then.Yes Kinnock and Mandelson, I’m particularly looking at you……
Abacab – well exactly, because politics. Ironically it’s what the chairman was pontificating on. He wasn’t not sure whether labour’s all just election guff and bluff or true fire corporate bashing. Would require a fairly sharp interviewer to bring out what Miliband would do differently in the case of Boots.
“I guess that makes almost every multinational exec whose company trades in the UK liable for UK income tax then.”
Indeed, and by default it makes them liable for income tax for every country in which they trade. Or is this just another case of some arrogant Brits believing we are still something special?
“Or is this just another case of some arrogant Brits believing we are still something special?”
Indeed – it’s tax imperialism. From the Left, of course. They never seem to think that any of this might flow two ways, since the UK is the centre of the taxation universe.
Anyway, it’s tax policy by Monty Python:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmOHx5Ftez8#t=102
So is Beaker suggesting we leave the EU, or just kick out Carney and anyone touched by Murdoch? While we’re on the subject of foreigners ‘lecturing’ us on what we should do…
“While we’re on the subject of foreigners ‘lecturing’ us on what we should do…”
Or is it rathermore just a problem of insufficiently-left-wing foreigners lecturing us on what to do?
Pessina chose to give his opinions on british politics. Hardly surprising that british politicians have their opinions on him. (The only concrete thing he said as far as I can tell is that Britain should remain in the UK.)
As a general rule, can’t we discount the views of anyone living in a tax haven, not on the grounds that they are tax dodgers, but on the grounds that they are the most boring fucks in the world? This is a man who finds Switzerland too exciting. See Guy Hands who lives in Jersey, Nigel Mansell etc.
One can imagine RM in his den, door locked, pleasuring himself to a well-thumbed copy of Tolley’s Tax Guide.
Woops
“(The only concrete thing he said as far as I can tell is that Britain should remain in the UK.)
Make that EU.
“can’t we discount the views of anyone living in a tax haven”
Free country. I’m completely conflicted myself: he wants us to stay within the EUSSR, and yet he also thinks Ed’s rubbish…
“One can imagine RM in his den, door locked, pleasuring himself to a well-thumbed copy of Tolley’s Tax Guide.”
And I was just about to go and eat.
“Indeed, and by default it makes them liable for income tax for every country in which they trade”
Is this ‘default’ as in the same meaning as ‘bollocks’ ?
Is Mr Boots really “avoiding his tax”? Or is he actually avoiding _UK_ tax?
Besides, Mr Miliband is actually a net negative taxpayer, he might think he’s paying tax but the reality is he’s just considerate enough to give some back to us. So why does he think a person who pays no UK tax is no better than a person who is a recipient of UK tax when it comes to lecturing about who to vote for to control said tax?
Runcie
“Is Mr Boots really “avoiding his tax”? Or is he actually avoiding _UK_ tax?”
Or is he just such an unbelievably boring fucker that we should ignore anything he says? As mentioned above, this is is a man who finds Switzerland too exciting. But who thinks it right to commentate on British politics despite being an (unbelievably boring) Italian who lives in Monaco.
Next thing we’ll be listening to West Country yokels who live in Portugal on the rents of british property.
I love the smokescreen that Luke is putting up…. Milli says ignore Mr Boots because he is a tax dodger, unlike any Labour voter, and Luke says to ignore him because he lives in a boring country. You just have to love the way that lefties think, if it can be called thinking.
WC yokel in the Algarve / iti in Monaco – no one is forcing you to, Luke, free world! And if you’re a masochist to boot…
Runcie, you are having a laugh aren’t you, about the avoiding stuff?
PF
“WC yokel in the Algarve / iti in Monaco – no one is forcing you to, Luke, free world! And if you’re a masochist to boot…”
No one is forcing me to do what? A stupefyingly dull Italian tax dodger is trying to influence british politics. A yokel who lives in Portugal subsidised by my taxes (and restrictive british planning laws) is trying to do the same.
Yes, of course I’m not being entirely serious, but it is freeloaders who are trying to influence what happens in my country. I leave the inhabitants of Portugal and Monaco alone. I just ask that they do the same for me.
PS, when no members or funders of the ASI own UK property, I will believe they are sincere about their desires to relax planning rules. Until then, I will apply a crude form of public choice theory and assume they are selfish like the rest of us.
Mr Miliband didn’t say Mr Pessina avoided UK taxes, just that he avoided taxes. Which he does, as an Italian living in Monaco. So what on Earth has the voting behaviour of UK citizens got to do with him? On this point, I agree with Mr Miliband. .
“what on Earth has the voting behaviour of UK citizens got to do with him?”
Err, the fact that if those UK citizens vote for Miliband, who is a cunt, it will damage the business of which he is chairman?
“So what on Earth has the voting behaviour of UK citizens got to do with him?”
He has no vote. Moribund will ruin his business if elected.
I thought the left fell over themselves to listen to whatever foreigners tell the UK to do, if it’s the EU, Obama, and so on.
“No one is forcing me to do what?”
What!
Hmmm… No one is forcing you to listen to people that you think are boring. No one would ordinarily waste their time doing that. Though actually I think Diogenes nailed it.
The thread is really about our Ted. That a leader of the opposition who aspires to be Prime Minister would try to tell a “foreigner living in foreign” (as Tim puts it) that his personal tax arrangements are wrong, and that in fact he owes money to some tax authority (I guess Ted must have some inside info from the Italian / Monaco authorities)?
Let’s not forget that Ted did say, and I quote “I think he should be paying his taxes” – well, you only pay taxes that are legally due.
Consider that Pessina’s interest is simply wanting the best business environment for the UK subsidiary (and all of its UK tax paying employees) of the organisation he is Chairman of – and to which Ted’s glorious response in effect is “You’re quite right, I haven’t got a fucking clue, mate”!
But he’s chairman of Boots, which is like British or something
Of course it’s British! It’s the place your mum would tell you to stand and wait outside come hell or high water in the days of trying to meet up in a city centre pre-mobile phones. Hence it should be taxed.
Does anyone think this man’s tax status would have been an issue at all if he had criticised UKIP’s stance on Britain’s position in Europe?
The answer us a very obvious ‘No’. Labour would be deferring to him as a Sage and “a champion of British interests”.
Luke,
> I leave the inhabitants of Portugal and Monaco alone.
You refuse to vote in EU elections?
And you want the Foreign Office abolished?
> PS, when no members or funders of the ASI own UK property, I will believe they are sincere about their desires to relax planning rules.
Er, they advocate changes in planning rules that would lead to a decrease in the value of their property.
@ Luke
You are boring (especially when you repeat your bigoted viewpoint “he’s boring so we shouldn’t listen to find out whether he has anything to say”) – so do you suggest that no-one should listen to you?
One of the best analysts in a sector I cover speaks in a very boring monotone but he’s is still worth listening to.
Squander 2
“Er, they advocate changes in planning rules that would lead to a decrease in the value of their property.”
Sorry,I wasn’t clear. They *advocate*those changes, but (I suspect) they know full well that they won’t happen. No party is advocating the end of the green belt, high rises in London etc. So you’re safe pretending to be in favour of mass house building when you’re a rent seeking wanker.
Am I unfair on Mr Worstall? Yes, he’s not a grade A hypocrite, but he gains from Nimbys preventing mass house building in and around Bath. And he/ his family doesn’t lose by it as he’s not trying to buy/rent in Bath.
Oh, I see. So, if, say, I were to publicly advocate the reintroduction of the death penalty, you would then not only conclude that I in fact oppose the death penalty (on the grounds that it is impossible to really want a policy if it’s not currently on any major party’s manifesto) but would also conclude that I’m really a dangerous criminal who is benefitting from not being executed, and would denounce my hypocrisy as such.
“I don’t think people in Britain are going to take kindly to being lectured by somebody who’s avoiding his taxes on how they should be voting”
Sean Connery anyone?
Luke: so in your view, if someone owns UK property (ASI) they can’t engage in political advocacy because it would be hypocrisy, and if they don’t own UK property (Pessina) they can’t do so because they don’t have an interest? It’s certainly a comprehensive view on matters.