We won the argument, but I regret we didn’t convert that into a majority for change
Jeremy Corbyn
We must now ensure that the working class, in all its diversity, is the driving force within our party
The point being that there isn’t a working class any more, not in the manner that the Marxists think there is. We now leap direct from lumpenproletariat to petit bougeoisie. There’s also no longer a working class in the old Labour sense. That guiding star of the movement simply isn’t there any more.
The British working class aren’t particularly interested in Palestine, “Climate Action”, Transgenderism, “smashing capitalism” or the fifty other Marxist stupidities which the middle-class, ‘educated’ internationalists that now dominate the party obsess about, so he’s either lying or demonstrating the utter cluelessness he has exhibited for the past thirty years and more.
We won the argument,
Really? No you didn’t.
We now need to listen to the voices of those in Stoke and Scunthorpe, Blyth and Bridgend, Grimsby and Glasgow, who didn’t support Labour. Our country has fundamentally changed since the financial crash and any political project that pretends otherwise is an indulgence.
Bit late. They spoke and the Tories and Nigel listened, Nigel was listening a long time ago to his credit. Your lot just sneered at them, at best, and most called them thick, racist bigots.
Of all the commentary I’ve heard and read, those inside the bubble just don’t get it. The working class (notwithstanding Tim’s point that we’re all middle class now) in those former (hehe) Labour heartlands take a rather straight forward view of democracy, some in the sneering class would probably say simplistic: We had a vote and they expect it to be respected and implemented.
Obviously I con’t prove the counterfactual, but I’d put money on it that if the referendum had been 48:52 they’d have shrugged, accepted the result and got on with their lives. They’d still have grumbled about the EU and Establishment, but there’d have been no temper tantrums, lawfare or expectations of shenanigans in Parliament. I suspect that even Nigel would have had difficulty raising a new political party based solely on leaving the EU and it would be another generation to get the momentum large enough to back another referendum.
Don’t know what happened there, I must have done something stupid with HTML tags.
That should have been “Really? (checks results, again). No you didn’t.
The election situation has developed not necessarily to Labour’s advantage.
Rob +47
Labour has gone back to its roots under Corbyn. Unfortunately, they chose its upper-middle-class Fabian weirdo roots*, not its sensible working class “how’s about we don’t have to sell our children to The Experiments in order to eat?” ones.
*One sometimes gets the impression that the mere words ‘Socialism’ and ‘Communism’ draw towards them with magnetic force every fruit-juice drinker, nudist, sandal-wearer, sex-maniac, Quaker, ‘Nature Cure’ quack, pacifist, and feminist in England.
“the working class, in all its diversity”: I dare say that there are people who consider themselves British working class who can decode “diversity” as meaning ‘not us’. As meaning, in fact, that Labour will put the presumed interests of its, ahem, cosmopolitan supporters in London ahead of the interests of its traditional supporters Oop North.
And they’d we right, wouldn’t they?
Tim, how many of my recent comments have you got in your spam collection?
Shirley, it depends. I mean, if the Tories carry on doing stuff like pandering to climate loons, such that people continue to ask what is the point of voting for them and they might as well have voted Labour, then he’ll have a point, won’t he?
petit bougeoisie
Ouch
And yes, there’s a clear job of work for the Brexit Party now. Michael Gove was looking very pink and purposeful on Sophy Ridge’s show earlier. Lots of infrastructure spending and lots of NHS spending plus new laws to guarantee the extra NHS money (wasn’t that an old Gordon Brown ruse, widely derided at the time?). Basically a programme of pulling out all the stops supposedly to satisfy voters who weren’t expect to vote Conservative. All of this relies on borrowing cheaply when the sensible aim should be to see interest rates rise to a level where savings are once again rewarded. Much is made of all these new supporters only ‘lending their votes’ but all voters only lend their votes as the Tories should have noticed at the Euros.
But conservative policies are a bit too conservative for the Conservatives. Better now to ape the policies of that sniffling hippogriff who hasn’t even the good grace to quit.
There is shitloads of infrastructure spending which can be done, and is needed: our roads are in a terrible state, let’s upgrade all those shit railway systems outside London, even build some actual cycle lanes so people who fancy cycling instead of driving aren’t playing Russian Roulette every time they go on the road.
Slash overseas aid, arts subsidy and Green Pork, it easily pays for itself. Chuck all the political activist NGOs onto one giant bonfire and light a match.
dearieme +1
It’ s clear that the Labour party thought they could take the same path the Democrats have taken in the US. i.e import millions of black and brown people to vote them into power in perpetuity. They have effectively become the anti-English party who thought the English working class were too stupid to notice it.
Even after Corbyn goes, the Corbynistas have a stranglehold on the Labour party:
https://ig.ft.com/jeremy-corbyn-labour-inner-circles/
( h/t golf charlie on bishop Hill )
http://bishophill.squarespace.com/unthreaded/?currentPage=2
I doubt that the bulk of the old working class were ever really interested in Socialism/Communism at all. All they, not unreasonably, wanted were decent working conditions and a decent standard of living.
They were useful cannon fodder for the Left for as long as they were a willing manipulable unionized mass capable of bringing whole industries to their knees.
As soon as they weren’t, the Left, no doubt to the relief of many of them, dumped the working class and tried to develop a new weapon.
Identity politics though is full of contradictions. Getting any number of different groups to act in concert while simultaneously encouraging each to push their own conflicting agendas was never going to be sustainable. And if the Left thought that they could dump all of these groups just as easily as they did the old working class as soon as their usefulness was over, then one at least is going to give them a horrible shock.
Dearieme + Johnathan
“the working class, in all its diversity”: I dare say that there are people who consider themselves British working class who can decode “diversity” as meaning ‘not us’.
I think most people have twigged that diversity = anti white
Shorter Corbyn as quoted by Dick Tuck (Democrat campaign strategist after losing 1966 election in California):
The people have spoken, the bastards.
“Obviously I con’t prove the counterfactual, but I’d put money on it that if the referendum had been 48:52 they’d have shrugged, accepted the result and got on with their lives. They’d still have grumbled about the EU and Establishment, but there’d have been no temper tantrums, lawfare or expectations of shenanigans in Parliament. I suspect that even Nigel would have had difficulty raising a new political party based solely on leaving the EU and it would be another generation to get the momentum large enough to back another referendum.”
That is what was supposed to happen, and what the establishment expected to happen. The idea was to put the issue to rest and get rid of UKIP.
As Rod Liddle puts it today, “Yum yum, leftie tears”.
Has that cunt Jizz resigned? Different tales–he resigned/he’ll go when he has seen another Marxist loon etc, etc.
He’s staying until the NEC decide to have a leadership election, so he’s sort of resigned, like he sort of wanted Brexit. Same way it seems that McDonnel won’t stand for leadership and will stand down as shadow chancellor when there is a new leader.
Fence sitting has become a habit it seems.
Given he kowtowed today the Remoaners and Labour firmly believe that Brexit cost them big (I’d agree it was a factor it wasn’t all just dislike of Corbyn) it will be interesting to see how this plays out as left wingers do like to have a scapegoat(s) and it looks like Tom Watson saw the writing on the wall and jumped ship early
Has that cunt Jizz resigned? Different tales–he resigned/he’ll go when he has seen another Marxist loon etc, etc.
We don’t want him resigning, he needs to stay around and ensure his successor continues the project of driving Labour in to oblivion.
If Nigel is still interested in politics he should change TBP in to an economically left of centre, socially right of centre, party and then start positioning them as the natural successor to Labour. Long process though.
I think there’s also a gap for a true liberal party and think it wasn’t a coincidence that the LibDems were at the strongest when the Orange Bookers were in the ascendant.
Rob,
“There is shitloads of infrastructure spending which can be done, and is needed: our roads are in a terrible state, let’s upgrade all those shit railway systems outside London, even build some actual cycle lanes so people who fancy cycling instead of driving aren’t playing Russian Roulette every time they go on the road.”
Roads: definitely. And build a few new dual carriageways to connect places like Wiltshire and Wales faster. It’s ridiculous how slow it is to get from Swindon to Salisbury. AND NOT FUCKING RAIL.
Shit railway stations: I really don’t care. Is there a roof over my head? Then you’ve done the job. Give me a bus shelter with seats and I’m happy. Spending money on stations is like having really beautiful art deco shitters in pubs.
Cycle lanes: I love the idea, but the biggest problem is existing stuff. I don’t know about other places, but when Swindon builds new roads, it puts in a cycle lane, but where do you put a cycle lane on the existing roads where there’s a single carriageway, footpaths and then houses?
It always puzzles me why political parties keep on talking about “change” when a sizable proportion of their target group just want the powers that be to stop moving their cheese!
There’s also no longer a working class in the old Labour sense.
I’d say there is. However there is no Labour Party ‘in the old Labour sense’.
As old Labour working class is closed shop unionised large firm workers
Working class now are white van man (who Lady Nugee despises), hair dressers, supermarket staff (who Labour look down on), Green Thumb guys, self-employed (Labour see tax-evaders), painters, decorators, dog-walkers etc
Labour, as Barry Gardiner inadvertently admitted, are the party of the public sector; plus students and immigrants
Yet, Conservative MPs & policy keep digging their “immigrants who will vote Labour welcome” hole
@Rob @BiND @dearieme @TMB @JS
Spot on
@Rob December 15, 2019 at 11:31 am
Infrastructure:
green light new runways at every (private sector) airport that wants one – cost to Gov’t/Taxpayer £0
green light new railways private sector want to build with no onerous Ofrail demands and restrictions – cost to Gov’t/Taxpayer £0
Aid etc +10
@Bloke on M4 December 15, 2019 at 9:18 pm
+1
Bus shelters: we’ve gone from poor ones to terrible small open-air minimal roof wet & freeze shelters
@Nautical Nick
+1